'No gay, no pay': The RuneScape community is absolutely mauling Jagex's new CEO over his decision to cancel new Pride Month events
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If I ran a business, I wouldn’t engage in any political events whatsoever. I don’t think businesses should, quite frankly. Be politically neutral. I don’t believe doing so “supports the status quo,” and thereby oppresses people “de facto,” that’s just pressure from activists to support them. You support gay people on your service by letting them play and putting down any instances of anti-gay rhetoric on your platform. Simple as that.
Calling pride month a political event is one of the most wildly bigoted takes I've ever heard.
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Take it easy there, Chicken Little. "I'm uncomfortable with any kind of marketing" is so hyperbolic, it's almost parody. Putting the name of your business above the door? Thats marketing. Creating a website where customers can find and engage your services? That's marketing. A minority-owned business proudly owning that status? That's marketing. A friend telling you about the great meal they had the other day from a local restaurant? Believe it or not, that's marketing.
Marketing is not evil in and of itself. Unless humanity returns to a tribal social structure where you can count the number of non-related acquaintances you know on your fingers, it is a necessary component of operating a business. Of course, you're 100% right that there have been dubious applications of the principle, but again, you're throwing the baby out with the bath water, and it hampers the salient point that you're trying to make.
Sure, if you only take it at it's most extreme and dont use a little bit of critical thinking. I specifically referenced companies in a thread about large corporations manipulating social issues for their own gain. I also gave wiggle room with the 99 out of a 100 reference.
I think you also cast far too wide a net with your definitions of marketing, especially in the context of the conversation happening.
I'd check your own sky to be absolutely sure it's falling before throwing aspersions like that around. You may have a hysterical over-exaggeration of your own there.
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I think it's that the world has changed into having fractured multiple cultures.
In the 80s/90s being gay was considered by general society to be an insult. If you're under 25, the concept of something being negative being called "gay" as the standard insult just sounds made up.
But people who are 40 years old may remember being in school, and you got a D on a quiz. Your buddy might say "You got a D? That's gay."
Had nothing to do with actual homosexuality. It's just that's what society was. Being gay wasn't accepted, and it was cool and trendy to hate on gays to the point that it wasn't questioned if you called anything bad "gay".
It's impossible to place an exact date on when the culture changed, because it likely changed at different times for different regions. I assume California was the first to change.
I first noticed the shift in pop culture around 2003. There was a russian pop singer duo/band called tatu. Terrible music, but they kissed in their one hit wonder music video.
The reactions I saw on MTV were people saying they were brave for being openly gay. Whereas if it would have happened in the 80s, I'm sure they'd have gotten death threats.
And I STILL see people who don't accept gay people.
So society is now fractured on what popular belief is. Now it's more like several circles, who all have different views. As opposed to one giant unified viewpoint, with those not conforming left on the outside in the underground.
Because that's just one topic. There's other people who are ok with gay people, but not ok with trans. So thats another circle. Now imagine every single viewpoint which has a counter viewpoint.
Whereas in the 80s, something like 92% of the vote went towards reagan, and everybody conformed to the preapproved normal viewpoints. We don't do that anymore. We each find our own meaning of normal.
Now me personally, I don't find giving a nazi salute to be normal. But you'll still find herds of people defending musk. You'll also find people like me who say fuck musk, and fuck any self identifying nazi. So, another example of how different people are now in different circles.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I assume California was the first to change
Nope, that designation goes to Massachusetts. First gay marriages occurred in 2004 and never had a prop 8 pass as late as 2008. California was a red state, redder than Florida is now, until very recently. California is a relatively recent leftward shift.
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If I ran a business, I wouldn’t engage in any political events whatsoever. I don’t think businesses should, quite frankly. Be politically neutral. I don’t believe doing so “supports the status quo,” and thereby oppresses people “de facto,” that’s just pressure from activists to support them. You support gay people on your service by letting them play and putting down any instances of anti-gay rhetoric on your platform. Simple as that.
The fact that business engage in Christmas celebrations instead of, say, Ramadan, is itself a political decision - it places value on Christmas over the celebrations of other religions.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be Christmas events in games - quite contrary, I think having as many events from as many cultures would be a smart business decision and it would make a larger number of players happy. But the fact is it would be a double standard to be fine with that and not with Pride.
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Pride month celebrations were my go-to events in secret. My family doesn't really understand the niche appeal of the game, and state religious agents can't really "disguise themselves" ingame. But if Jagex is veering right, they might (like twitter) sell my information to security agencies the same way the Sauds/Turks did to Twitter a few years ago.
At least I get to wear my pride cape 24/7 until my membership runs out. In hindsight, It was a bad idea to assume that shooting stars/maple forestry/w301 hate chats were "isolated incidents". They're clearly part of an ongoing trend that has the CEO's approval. Oh well, there's always a countdown to good things. I should enjoy it while it lasts.
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If I ran a business, I wouldn’t engage in any political events whatsoever. I don’t think businesses should, quite frankly. Be politically neutral. I don’t believe doing so “supports the status quo,” and thereby oppresses people “de facto,” that’s just pressure from activists to support them. You support gay people on your service by letting them play and putting down any instances of anti-gay rhetoric on your platform. Simple as that.
If I ran a business, I wouldn’t engage in any political events whatsoever.
So you won't have holidays, period.
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Calling pride month a political event is one of the most wildly bigoted takes I've ever heard.
Pride is a political movement - or did they not fight for the rights of LGBT people? Flags are inherently political. Flying a flag signals allegiance and identity, which are political at their core.
This makes pride month political.
Being Lesbian/Gay/Bi/Transgender isn't political in and of itself, but movements are.
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In the year of our Lord 2025 "news" is some goober cherry picking reddit and twitter posts to push his opinion.
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I'm not comfortable with companies using any kind of marketing tactics. Because 99 times out of a 100 it's speedy and underhanded.
But since they're going to be doing it anyways, doing it with pride, or disenfranchised demographics, at least normalizes their humanity. Which, at the end of the day, is the point of pride month et al.
using any kind of marketing tactics
So there shouldn’t be a poster on a wooden pole for a new corner store? How about fancy signs? No happy hours either?
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The fact that business engage in Christmas celebrations instead of, say, Ramadan, is itself a political decision - it places value on Christmas over the celebrations of other religions.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be Christmas events in games - quite contrary, I think having as many events from as many cultures would be a smart business decision and it would make a larger number of players happy. But the fact is it would be a double standard to be fine with that and not with Pride.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Christmas celebrations
Christmas is more of a cultural celebration than a Christian one, and thus not political.
I'm atheist, but I still celebrate Christmas, because it's a good excuse to gather friends and family, and have some fun together.
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If I ran a business, I wouldn’t engage in any political events whatsoever. I don’t think businesses should, quite frankly. Be politically neutral. I don’t believe doing so “supports the status quo,” and thereby oppresses people “de facto,” that’s just pressure from activists to support them. You support gay people on your service by letting them play and putting down any instances of anti-gay rhetoric on your platform. Simple as that.
Do you also support gay people on your service by letting them organize and run a gay pride event on your service? Or is having to witness people celebrating gay pride too much for your delicate sensibilities?
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Would a commercial with Jesus on the cross saying he is thirsty and having a Roman Soldier pass him an ice cold Coca Cola be better?
Yes. PLEASE put this on the air. I am begging someone to make this a reality. Also, full disclosure, I do enjoy watching the world burn over stupid shit. Christians losing their shit over THAT commercial would be comically delightful.
Would a commercial with Jesus on the cross saying he is thirsty and having a Roman Soldier pass him an ice cold Coca Cola be better?
I tried it using Sora, but "This content can't be shown for now. We're still developing how we evaluate which content conflicts with our policies. Think we got it wrong? Let us know."
This was the prompt:
Give me a Coca Cola commercial where Jesus has been nailed to a cross, and says "I'm thirsty", after which a Roman Soldier passes him an ice cold Coca Cola.
I tried replacing "Jesus" with a man, but no dice
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Pride is a political movement - or did they not fight for the rights of LGBT people? Flags are inherently political. Flying a flag signals allegiance and identity, which are political at their core.
This makes pride month political.
Being Lesbian/Gay/Bi/Transgender isn't political in and of itself, but movements are.
Everything is political if you really get down to it.
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Christmas celebrations
Christmas is more of a cultural celebration than a Christian one, and thus not political.
I'm atheist, but I still celebrate Christmas, because it's a good excuse to gather friends and family, and have some fun together.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Christians having the right to celebrate Christmas is political believe it or not.
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using any kind of marketing tactics
So there shouldn’t be a poster on a wooden pole for a new corner store? How about fancy signs? No happy hours either?
I'm perfectly fine without those, yeah. Though you seem to be taking my meaning to a more extreme degree than was inferred.
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Game companies need to focus on making good games. Take "pride" in that.
those who play games, and those who are LGBTQIA+ are both people
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Calling pride month a political event is one of the most wildly bigoted takes I've ever heard.
No, it's definitely political. So was the Civil Rights movement in the US. So was Womens' suffrage.
Pushing for change is political, even if it's nearly universally agreed that the particular change is necessary and good. I agree with LGBT rights and as far as I care, they can have a month long pride if they want, it doesn't in any way chafe my willy. However, I agree with the person you replied to. As a business, ANY stance on ANY political cause risks alienation of some part of your customer base. Doing a 180 on your stance like Jagex did is of course the worst thing you can do, because then you alienate the people who agreed with you, but the others will still remember when you disagreed with them. Once they decided to do pride, they should've fucking stuck to it, at least for the year where they already had events scheduled!
If I ran a public-facing business at all, it would have literally no political allegiance or opinions. No stance on LGBT rights, no political donations (not really a huge thing in my country anyway), etc. Just do my thing, provide a great service, make sure my employees and customers are happy, and... The LGBT folks can do whatever they want, I'm just not voicing support for them as a business. Even if I as a person root for equal rights, I just don't want to take a stance as a business owner. Donations to charities, including LGBT charities, are fine - I just don't want it to be particularly public. But then I just prefer privacy in these kinds of matters.
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I mean RuneScape sucks anyway, so...
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Do you also support gay people on your service by letting them organize and run a gay pride event on your service? Or is having to witness people celebrating gay pride too much for your delicate sensibilities?
Not the person you replied to, but agree with them to some degree, at least on the fact that any strong political stances are dangerous for a business.
If I ran a service and gay people are celebrating pride on it, that's none of my business and they can keep on doing whatever they want. Similarly, if conservatives want to throw a straight party without outright saying gay people deserve fewer rights, it's fucking weird, but it's their business. The moment anyone advocates for harming someone else, THAT's when it becomes a problem for me. Goal of a business, in my opinion, is to serve as many people as possible.
I just wouldn't want to voice support for, or against, anyone's rights, as a business. It's horrible that LGBT rights are a politicized issue, sure. But if I ran a business, and there are 30% otherwise quite well-behaved customers who would drop my business because I changed my logo to a rainbow colored one... I just don't see myself doing that. If I'm providing a service at the best price/quality ratio, it would just mean they drop me to go pay a homophobic business owner even more money for the same service. Does that actually benefit anyone, other than the hypothetical homophobic business owner?
But the worst, most cowardly thing, is supporting LGBT rights and then WITHDRAWING that support. If you're political already, fucking stick to your beliefs. Don't abandon them the second the political landscape starts changing.
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If I ran a business, I wouldn’t engage in any political events whatsoever. I don’t think businesses should, quite frankly. Be politically neutral. I don’t believe doing so “supports the status quo,” and thereby oppresses people “de facto,” that’s just pressure from activists to support them. You support gay people on your service by letting them play and putting down any instances of anti-gay rhetoric on your platform. Simple as that.
Pride is political now?
