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  3. Helldivers 2 and Palworld devs wish players understood that 'easy' additions and updates are sometimes really hard: 'That's half a year's work. That takes six months'

Helldivers 2 and Palworld devs wish players understood that 'easy' additions and updates are sometimes really hard: 'That's half a year's work. That takes six months'

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  • G goronmon@lemmy.world
    24 May 2025, 12:58

    What I don't understand is why do developers make bad games? They should just make good games instead.

    Gamers want good games, not bad games.

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    secret300@lemmy.sdf.org
    wrote on 24 May 2025, 13:36 last edited by
    #45

    Soo true

    1 Reply Last reply
    4
    • S simple@lemm.ee
      24 May 2025, 11:02

      cough, Risk of Rain 2 on console, cough

      I still remember when they somehow broke the Xbox version and nobody could get past the start menu.

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      jordanz@lemmy.world
      wrote on 24 May 2025, 13:42 last edited by
      #46

      I had to read an article about that. It apparently coincided with the release of the second DLC. It was pretty broken on PS5 as well. That just screams some high level exec said it MUST be out on the announced date cause they told someone that it would be. Likely part of a contract or their bonus was tied to it. Doesn’t matter if it’s unplayable. It ‘met’ the release deadline. Now we’re just ‘doing maintenance’.

      I’m a dev and I firmly believe that if people could see the software they use daily as a physical object like a car…they’d be more “Hell, no. That’s a death trap” than they probably realize.

      1 Reply Last reply
      4
      • T tower@lemm.ee
        24 May 2025, 08:36

        See: Destiny and Telesto.

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        nfreak@lemmy.ml
        wrote on 24 May 2025, 13:56 last edited by
        #47

        In the wake of all the layoffs and such I don't know if any former employees have (as vaguely as possible) discussed the codebase yet. It seems like such an absolute nightmare.

        1 Reply Last reply
        2
        • M mriswith@lemmy.world
          24 May 2025, 06:53

          That's nothing new.

          Gamers who don't know any programming, or maybe made a little utility for themselves. Looovee to bring out the old "just change one line of code", "just add this model", etc. to alter something in a game.

          They literally do not understand how complex systems become, specially in online multiplayer games. Riot had issues with their spaghetti code, and people were crawling over eachother to explain how "easy" it would be to just change an ability. Without realizing that it could impact and potentially break half a dozen other abilities.

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          cactusupyourbutt@lemmy.world
          wrote on 24 May 2025, 14:24 last edited by
          #48

          as a professional software dev, games with fozens or hundreds of abilities that interact with eachother scare me

          M 1 Reply Last reply 24 May 2025, 15:38
          8
          • R rayquetzalcoatl@lemmy.world
            24 May 2025, 12:06

            I agree with the sentiment, but I don't know Helldivers 2 -- what basic launch features were/are missing?

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            anyoldname3@lemmy.world
            wrote on 24 May 2025, 14:28 last edited by
            #49

            There's a strong argument that the server architecture needed to be better at launch, but then the game sold more than an order of magnitude better than it was expected to, so no one would have noticed that it scaled badly had the player count been in line with their design and testing.

            R 1 Reply Last reply 24 May 2025, 15:19
            8
            • G goronmon@lemmy.world
              24 May 2025, 12:58

              What I don't understand is why do developers make bad games? They should just make good games instead.

              Gamers want good games, not bad games.

              F This user is from outside of this forum
              F This user is from outside of this forum
              finishingdutch@lemmy.world
              wrote on 24 May 2025, 14:40 last edited by
              #50

              Well, the fact is that there are also a LOT of dumb customers willing to buy crap. God knows why.

              Just look at the trending / best selling lists on Steam. There’s shit on there that I wouldn’t play if you paid me. Yet somehow there’s enough of a customer base for that that they sell it.

              Honestly, Steam should look into setting a minimum quality level for things sold on the platform.

              T 1 Reply Last reply 24 May 2025, 14:53
              5
              • G ghoelian@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                24 May 2025, 10:15

                Even if you're an actual software dev, it's still pretty much impossible to guess how much work something is without knowing the codebase intimately.

                B This user is from outside of this forum
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                billwashere@lemmy.world
                wrote on 24 May 2025, 14:47 last edited by
                #51

                And even then it’s sometimes impossible because how much can you keep in your head at once. Everybody specializes on these large projects. I may have 30000 ft view of how things operate but getting down into specifics can be hard. I have some intimate knowledge of the learning management system we develop for, which is way less complex than most games, and there are always little gotchas when you make code or architecture changes.

                1 Reply Last reply
                4
                • G goronmon@lemmy.world
                  24 May 2025, 12:58

                  What I don't understand is why do developers make bad games? They should just make good games instead.

                  Gamers want good games, not bad games.

                  L This user is from outside of this forum
                  L This user is from outside of this forum
                  lagoon8622@sh.itjust.works
                  wrote on 24 May 2025, 14:49 last edited by
                  #52

                  The developers aren't in charge of what's in the game, the PMs and accountants are

                  S A 2 Replies Last reply 24 May 2025, 18:45
                  7
                  • F finishingdutch@lemmy.world
                    24 May 2025, 14:40

                    Well, the fact is that there are also a LOT of dumb customers willing to buy crap. God knows why.

                    Just look at the trending / best selling lists on Steam. There’s shit on there that I wouldn’t play if you paid me. Yet somehow there’s enough of a customer base for that that they sell it.

                    Honestly, Steam should look into setting a minimum quality level for things sold on the platform.

                    T This user is from outside of this forum
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                    tankovayadiviziya@lemmy.world
                    wrote on 24 May 2025, 14:53 last edited by
                    #53

                    Well, the fact is that there are also a LOT of dumb customers willing to buy crap.

                    As much as everyone love Oblivion...it all started from there with the $9 horse armour DLC.

                    God knows why.

                    Yet somehow there’s enough of a customer base for that that they sell it.

                    Kids. Fucking kids. Thankfully I am never that stupid to buy individual DLCs even when I was a child, which is compounded by familial circumstances and education, but kids will be kids. Either they stole their parent's credit card to pay for useless virtual items, or they were spoiled and never taught with financial literacy.

                    A 1 Reply Last reply 24 May 2025, 20:26
                    3
                    • I inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world
                      24 May 2025, 01:49
                      This post did not contain any content.
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                      jax@sh.itjust.works
                      wrote on 24 May 2025, 15:18 last edited by jax@sh.itjust.works
                      #54

                      So then why don't they have regular bulletins in their games showing 'Look, look! These features will be coming by xx/xx/xxxx!' ?

                      Things set the timeline back? 'Oh no! Looks like we won't be releasing this on that date, it will actually be this date!'

                      Seems like a non issue for anyone with a 6th graders capacity for interacting with other humans. These are IT folks, with the added layer of gamers to boot — though. Anticipating motivations and responding to others input isn't exactly a strong suit.

                      Edit: oh, beyond that — I have very little sympathy for a developer of a content drip. You're out for the money, don't whine when people inevitably get sick of waiting for a little more of something they've already gotten maximum enjoyment out of.

                      L 1 Reply Last reply 24 May 2025, 15:54
                      0
                      • F finishingdutch@lemmy.world
                        24 May 2025, 11:19

                        It would also be great if devs added things during development that should simply be there at launch. Instead of that, shit gets rushed out the door with promises of future fixes and updates. And then devs get all huffy when people rightfully ask for things to be added that are supposed to be basic launch features…

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                        ramirezmike@programming.dev
                        wrote on 24 May 2025, 15:19 last edited by
                        #55

                        supposed to be basic launch features

                        isn't this very subjective and dependent on the game and scale of success?

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • A anyoldname3@lemmy.world
                          24 May 2025, 14:28

                          There's a strong argument that the server architecture needed to be better at launch, but then the game sold more than an order of magnitude better than it was expected to, so no one would have noticed that it scaled badly had the player count been in line with their design and testing.

                          R This user is from outside of this forum
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                          rayquetzalcoatl@lemmy.world
                          wrote on 24 May 2025, 15:19 last edited by rayquetzalcoatl@lemmy.world
                          #56

                          Ah yeah that's a tricky one. I guess as developers we'd all like to be ambitious and plan for millions of users but that sort of hardware and architecture takes time and money that might not be realistically in the budget/scope.

                          I've also not really got insight as to who would have a say on that kind of hardware, whether that's PMs or devs. Probably higher-ups, right?

                          A 1 Reply Last reply 24 May 2025, 16:06
                          4
                          • S slazer2au@lemmy.world
                            24 May 2025, 07:10

                            I like to link them to any modding SDK (official or unofficial) and as them why don't they make it.

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                            shoo@lemmy.world
                            wrote on 24 May 2025, 15:22 last edited by
                            #57

                            Well for one they're a consumer who paid for a functional game. Nobody expects drivers to break out power tools and mod their car right off the lot.

                            It's even more embarrassing when modders do fix it. Some random guy with no source code access manages to fix an issue in 3 weeks that a whole team couldn't fix in 3 years.

                            1 Reply Last reply
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                            • G ghoelian@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                              24 May 2025, 10:15

                              Even if you're an actual software dev, it's still pretty much impossible to guess how much work something is without knowing the codebase intimately.

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                              shoo@lemmy.world
                              wrote on 24 May 2025, 15:35 last edited by shoo@lemmy.world
                              #58

                              When a dev with game dev experience says something should be easy to fix, it's under the assumption of a reasonable code base. Most games are built off of common engines and you can sometimes infer how things are likely organized if you track how bugs are introduced, how objects interact, how things are loaded, etc...

                              When something is a 1 day bugfix under ideal conditions, saying it will take 6+ months is admitting one of:

                              • The codebase is fucked
                              • All resources are going to new features
                              • Something external is slowing it down (palworld lawsuit, company sale, C-suite politics, etc...)
                              • Your current dev team is sub par

                              Not that any of those is completely undefendable or pure malpractice, but saying it "can't" be done or blaming complexity is often a cop out.

                              D K T D 4 Replies Last reply 24 May 2025, 20:28
                              11
                              • C cactusupyourbutt@lemmy.world
                                24 May 2025, 14:24

                                as a professional software dev, games with fozens or hundreds of abilities that interact with eachother scare me

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                                mriswith@lemmy.world
                                wrote on 24 May 2025, 15:38 last edited by mriswith@lemmy.world
                                #59

                                Yea, in things like MOBA games you have to compensate for so many edge cases that the amount of interactions between abilities is as you say, scary.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                2
                                • S slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org
                                  24 May 2025, 12:35

                                  Half a year's work takes 6 months? I had no idea

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                                  skyezopen@lemmy.world
                                  wrote on 24 May 2025, 15:40 last edited by
                                  #60

                                  Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.

                                  V F 2 Replies Last reply 24 May 2025, 18:12
                                  37
                                  • J jax@sh.itjust.works
                                    24 May 2025, 15:18

                                    So then why don't they have regular bulletins in their games showing 'Look, look! These features will be coming by xx/xx/xxxx!' ?

                                    Things set the timeline back? 'Oh no! Looks like we won't be releasing this on that date, it will actually be this date!'

                                    Seems like a non issue for anyone with a 6th graders capacity for interacting with other humans. These are IT folks, with the added layer of gamers to boot — though. Anticipating motivations and responding to others input isn't exactly a strong suit.

                                    Edit: oh, beyond that — I have very little sympathy for a developer of a content drip. You're out for the money, don't whine when people inevitably get sick of waiting for a little more of something they've already gotten maximum enjoyment out of.

                                    L This user is from outside of this forum
                                    L This user is from outside of this forum
                                    lorty@lemmy.ml
                                    wrote on 24 May 2025, 15:54 last edited by
                                    #61

                                    Try telling your users (who are gamers) that the feature they want is being pushed back. See how well they'll react.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    6
                                    • I inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world
                                      24 May 2025, 01:49
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                                      icastfist@programming.dev
                                      wrote on 24 May 2025, 15:58 last edited by
                                      #62

                                      For Palworld, a new island takes 6 months, per the article. Probably talking about Sakurajima and the big southern one. That makes sense, since it's not just putting stuff there and calling it a day on the first finished thing, some level design has to happen so the place makes sense and doesn't feel super boring to explore.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      20
                                      • D dumblederp@aussie.zone
                                        24 May 2025, 04:56

                                        My Helldivers gripe is that the war bonds cost too much for the casual player. 1000 super credits takes a while to gather, and even grind. Paying actual money for them is about $25aud per war bond. I think there's eight war bonds now? That's a full day's income, and you still need to collect medals to unlock the contents of the warbond.

                                        Edit: You all don't need to explain this to me, I'm aware of the options for getting super credits. None of that changes how I feel about the game and that I'm losing interest because of it.

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                                        erin@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                        wrote on 24 May 2025, 16:00 last edited by
                                        #63

                                        Ignoring the part about the super credits and fomo stuff, the money confuses me. Is regional pricing so different that you're paying an additional $10 AUD compared to US and EU pricing? Additionally, $25 AUD as a full day's income? Even a low hour, part time job earns way more than that. I feel like your situation might not be financially compatible with buying things like that, I'd cheat or pirate if it's that important to you. $10 USD is not much for DLC, and while I strongly dislike purchasable gameplay mechanics in games, it's supporting the continued development and it isn't egregious. $10 is a burger, or a coffee, and I'm saying this as someone well below the poverty line.

                                        C 1 Reply Last reply 24 May 2025, 22:55
                                        0
                                        • I inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world
                                          24 May 2025, 01:49
                                          This post did not contain any content.
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                                          owlboi@lemm.ee
                                          wrote on 24 May 2025, 16:02 last edited by owlboi@lemm.ee
                                          #64

                                          if it takes you 6 months to add a new fundamental game mechanic then thats understandable

                                          if it takes you 6 months to remove an unnecessary popup then youre incompetent.
                                          (looking at you, Hunt Showdown)

                                          pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zoneP 1 Reply Last reply 24 May 2025, 20:38
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