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  3. Helldivers 2 and Palworld devs wish players understood that 'easy' additions and updates are sometimes really hard: 'That's half a year's work. That takes six months'

Helldivers 2 and Palworld devs wish players understood that 'easy' additions and updates are sometimes really hard: 'That's half a year's work. That takes six months'

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  • dumblederp@aussie.zoneD [email protected]

    I'm definitely experiencing FOMO with the warbonds I don't have. I don't have the time to play/grind or the inclination to pay for them, so I am missing out. There's three warbonds that I don't have and sure I'll eventually get them maybe but right now I'm missing out. Being able to unlock things is a big part of a game to me. I'm not dedicated enough to HD2 to skip the other games I want to play in order to get the unlocks. The whole process is lowering my interest in the game. I paid for it, I want to use the new toys that get released with it. If I were to buy it today, I'd be so far behind I'd feel short-changed in what I got access to.

    L This user is from outside of this forum
    L This user is from outside of this forum
    [email protected]
    wrote last edited by
    #42

    It’s by far the least scummy of all online shooters.

    I still have multiple to unlock and I have no issue paying for them. I have way more money than time to play.

    1 Reply Last reply
    8
    • finishingdutch@lemmy.worldF [email protected]

      It would also be great if devs added things during development that should simply be there at launch. Instead of that, shit gets rushed out the door with promises of future fixes and updates. And then devs get all huffy when people rightfully ask for things to be added that are supposed to be basic launch features…

      G This user is from outside of this forum
      G This user is from outside of this forum
      [email protected]
      wrote last edited by
      #43

      What I don't understand is why do developers make bad games? They should just make good games instead.

      Gamers want good games, not bad games.

      S finishingdutch@lemmy.worldF L 3 Replies Last reply
      36
      • R [email protected]

        It was only an example. As the asset already exists in the game elsewhere, adding that same asset somewhere else in the game should definitely not take even an intern more than a week to implement.

        Again, it is understandable in certain circumstances that major content drops take time. But for something as simple as the flashlight attachment example (which again is only a hypothetical example), there is no excuse for something like that to take 6 months or more to implement. Even if they have other priorities, something like that is so menial to implement that it would not take any significant amount of time away from higher priority development. Particularly because, in the example, other guns already have flashlight attachments, it already exists in the game. Unless they programmed the game in the literal worst way imagineable, they likely have a modular weapon system with slots that accept attachments. Very easy to add a new slot and allow it to accept the flashlight attachment, again as an example.

        A This user is from outside of this forum
        A This user is from outside of this forum
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        wrote last edited by
        #44

        I think you're misunderstanding the concept of priority.

        1 Reply Last reply
        3
        • G [email protected]

          What I don't understand is why do developers make bad games? They should just make good games instead.

          Gamers want good games, not bad games.

          S This user is from outside of this forum
          S This user is from outside of this forum
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          wrote last edited by
          #45

          Soo true

          1 Reply Last reply
          4
          • simple@lemm.eeS [email protected]

            cough, Risk of Rain 2 on console, cough

            I still remember when they somehow broke the Xbox version and nobody could get past the start menu.

            J This user is from outside of this forum
            J This user is from outside of this forum
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            wrote last edited by
            #46

            I had to read an article about that. It apparently coincided with the release of the second DLC. It was pretty broken on PS5 as well. That just screams some high level exec said it MUST be out on the announced date cause they told someone that it would be. Likely part of a contract or their bonus was tied to it. Doesn’t matter if it’s unplayable. It ‘met’ the release deadline. Now we’re just ‘doing maintenance’.

            I’m a dev and I firmly believe that if people could see the software they use daily as a physical object like a car…they’d be more “Hell, no. That’s a death trap” than they probably realize.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • T [email protected]

              See: Destiny and Telesto.

              nfreak@lemmy.mlN This user is from outside of this forum
              nfreak@lemmy.mlN This user is from outside of this forum
              [email protected]
              wrote last edited by
              #47

              In the wake of all the layoffs and such I don't know if any former employees have (as vaguely as possible) discussed the codebase yet. It seems like such an absolute nightmare.

              1 Reply Last reply
              2
              • M [email protected]

                That's nothing new.

                Gamers who don't know any programming, or maybe made a little utility for themselves. Looovee to bring out the old "just change one line of code", "just add this model", etc. to alter something in a game.

                They literally do not understand how complex systems become, specially in online multiplayer games. Riot had issues with their spaghetti code, and people were crawling over eachother to explain how "easy" it would be to just change an ability. Without realizing that it could impact and potentially break half a dozen other abilities.

                C This user is from outside of this forum
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                wrote last edited by
                #48

                as a professional software dev, games with fozens or hundreds of abilities that interact with eachother scare me

                M 1 Reply Last reply
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                • rayquetzalcoatl@lemmy.worldR [email protected]

                  I agree with the sentiment, but I don't know Helldivers 2 -- what basic launch features were/are missing?

                  anyoldname3@lemmy.worldA This user is from outside of this forum
                  anyoldname3@lemmy.worldA This user is from outside of this forum
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                  wrote last edited by
                  #49

                  There's a strong argument that the server architecture needed to be better at launch, but then the game sold more than an order of magnitude better than it was expected to, so no one would have noticed that it scaled badly had the player count been in line with their design and testing.

                  rayquetzalcoatl@lemmy.worldR 1 Reply Last reply
                  8
                  • G [email protected]

                    What I don't understand is why do developers make bad games? They should just make good games instead.

                    Gamers want good games, not bad games.

                    finishingdutch@lemmy.worldF This user is from outside of this forum
                    finishingdutch@lemmy.worldF This user is from outside of this forum
                    [email protected]
                    wrote last edited by
                    #50

                    Well, the fact is that there are also a LOT of dumb customers willing to buy crap. God knows why.

                    Just look at the trending / best selling lists on Steam. There’s shit on there that I wouldn’t play if you paid me. Yet somehow there’s enough of a customer base for that that they sell it.

                    Honestly, Steam should look into setting a minimum quality level for things sold on the platform.

                    T 1 Reply Last reply
                    5
                    • G [email protected]

                      Even if you're an actual software dev, it's still pretty much impossible to guess how much work something is without knowing the codebase intimately.

                      B This user is from outside of this forum
                      B This user is from outside of this forum
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                      wrote last edited by
                      #51

                      And even then it’s sometimes impossible because how much can you keep in your head at once. Everybody specializes on these large projects. I may have 30000 ft view of how things operate but getting down into specifics can be hard. I have some intimate knowledge of the learning management system we develop for, which is way less complex than most games, and there are always little gotchas when you make code or architecture changes.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      4
                      • G [email protected]

                        What I don't understand is why do developers make bad games? They should just make good games instead.

                        Gamers want good games, not bad games.

                        L This user is from outside of this forum
                        L This user is from outside of this forum
                        [email protected]
                        wrote last edited by
                        #52

                        The developers aren't in charge of what's in the game, the PMs and accountants are

                        S a_random_idiot@lemmy.worldA 2 Replies Last reply
                        7
                        • finishingdutch@lemmy.worldF [email protected]

                          Well, the fact is that there are also a LOT of dumb customers willing to buy crap. God knows why.

                          Just look at the trending / best selling lists on Steam. There’s shit on there that I wouldn’t play if you paid me. Yet somehow there’s enough of a customer base for that that they sell it.

                          Honestly, Steam should look into setting a minimum quality level for things sold on the platform.

                          T This user is from outside of this forum
                          T This user is from outside of this forum
                          [email protected]
                          wrote last edited by
                          #53

                          Well, the fact is that there are also a LOT of dumb customers willing to buy crap.

                          As much as everyone love Oblivion...it all started from there with the $9 horse armour DLC.

                          God knows why.

                          Yet somehow there’s enough of a customer base for that that they sell it.

                          Kids. Fucking kids. Thankfully I am never that stupid to buy individual DLCs even when I was a child, which is compounded by familial circumstances and education, but kids will be kids. Either they stole their parent's credit card to pay for useless virtual items, or they were spoiled and never taught with financial literacy.

                          a_random_idiot@lemmy.worldA 1 Reply Last reply
                          3
                          • I [email protected]
                            This post did not contain any content.
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                            wrote last edited by [email protected]
                            #54

                            So then why don't they have regular bulletins in their games showing 'Look, look! These features will be coming by xx/xx/xxxx!' ?

                            Things set the timeline back? 'Oh no! Looks like we won't be releasing this on that date, it will actually be this date!'

                            Seems like a non issue for anyone with a 6th graders capacity for interacting with other humans. These are IT folks, with the added layer of gamers to boot — though. Anticipating motivations and responding to others input isn't exactly a strong suit.

                            Edit: oh, beyond that — I have very little sympathy for a developer of a content drip. You're out for the money, don't whine when people inevitably get sick of waiting for a little more of something they've already gotten maximum enjoyment out of.

                            lorty@lemmy.mlL 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • finishingdutch@lemmy.worldF [email protected]

                              It would also be great if devs added things during development that should simply be there at launch. Instead of that, shit gets rushed out the door with promises of future fixes and updates. And then devs get all huffy when people rightfully ask for things to be added that are supposed to be basic launch features…

                              R This user is from outside of this forum
                              R This user is from outside of this forum
                              [email protected]
                              wrote last edited by
                              #55

                              supposed to be basic launch features

                              isn't this very subjective and dependent on the game and scale of success?

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              12
                              • anyoldname3@lemmy.worldA [email protected]

                                There's a strong argument that the server architecture needed to be better at launch, but then the game sold more than an order of magnitude better than it was expected to, so no one would have noticed that it scaled badly had the player count been in line with their design and testing.

                                rayquetzalcoatl@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
                                rayquetzalcoatl@lemmy.worldR This user is from outside of this forum
                                [email protected]
                                wrote last edited by [email protected]
                                #56

                                Ah yeah that's a tricky one. I guess as developers we'd all like to be ambitious and plan for millions of users but that sort of hardware and architecture takes time and money that might not be realistically in the budget/scope.

                                I've also not really got insight as to who would have a say on that kind of hardware, whether that's PMs or devs. Probably higher-ups, right?

                                anyoldname3@lemmy.worldA 1 Reply Last reply
                                4
                                • S [email protected]

                                  I like to link them to any modding SDK (official or unofficial) and as them why don't they make it.

                                  S This user is from outside of this forum
                                  S This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #57

                                  Well for one they're a consumer who paid for a functional game. Nobody expects drivers to break out power tools and mod their car right off the lot.

                                  It's even more embarrassing when modders do fix it. Some random guy with no source code access manages to fix an issue in 3 weeks that a whole team couldn't fix in 3 years.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  10
                                  • G [email protected]

                                    Even if you're an actual software dev, it's still pretty much impossible to guess how much work something is without knowing the codebase intimately.

                                    S This user is from outside of this forum
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                                    wrote last edited by [email protected]
                                    #58

                                    When a dev with game dev experience says something should be easy to fix, it's under the assumption of a reasonable code base. Most games are built off of common engines and you can sometimes infer how things are likely organized if you track how bugs are introduced, how objects interact, how things are loaded, etc...

                                    When something is a 1 day bugfix under ideal conditions, saying it will take 6+ months is admitting one of:

                                    • The codebase is fucked
                                    • All resources are going to new features
                                    • Something external is slowing it down (palworld lawsuit, company sale, C-suite politics, etc...)
                                    • Your current dev team is sub par

                                    Not that any of those is completely undefendable or pure malpractice, but saying it "can't" be done or blaming complexity is often a cop out.

                                    D K T D 4 Replies Last reply
                                    11
                                    • C [email protected]

                                      as a professional software dev, games with fozens or hundreds of abilities that interact with eachother scare me

                                      M This user is from outside of this forum
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                                      wrote last edited by [email protected]
                                      #59

                                      Yea, in things like MOBA games you have to compensate for so many edge cases that the amount of interactions between abilities is as you say, scary.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      2
                                      • S [email protected]

                                        Half a year's work takes 6 months? I had no idea

                                        S This user is from outside of this forum
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                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #60

                                        Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.

                                        V F 2 Replies Last reply
                                        37
                                        • J [email protected]

                                          So then why don't they have regular bulletins in their games showing 'Look, look! These features will be coming by xx/xx/xxxx!' ?

                                          Things set the timeline back? 'Oh no! Looks like we won't be releasing this on that date, it will actually be this date!'

                                          Seems like a non issue for anyone with a 6th graders capacity for interacting with other humans. These are IT folks, with the added layer of gamers to boot — though. Anticipating motivations and responding to others input isn't exactly a strong suit.

                                          Edit: oh, beyond that — I have very little sympathy for a developer of a content drip. You're out for the money, don't whine when people inevitably get sick of waiting for a little more of something they've already gotten maximum enjoyment out of.

                                          lorty@lemmy.mlL This user is from outside of this forum
                                          lorty@lemmy.mlL This user is from outside of this forum
                                          [email protected]
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #61

                                          Try telling your users (who are gamers) that the feature they want is being pushed back. See how well they'll react.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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