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I...uh....wait...ummm...hold on....wait...

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  • B bleatingzombie@lemmy.world
    19 May 2025, 17:30

    I'm extremely naive when it comes to tabletop RPGs

    Is there any kind of "plot says no" response to magic? Something like the doors in oblivion where you need a key to unlock

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    sbv@sh.itjust.works
    wrote on 19 May 2025, 18:49 last edited by
    #13

    We don't do that here. The GM provides the model of physics the players accept and expect. If the GM just says "nah" when stuff is inconvenient, players don't know what to expect, and the world becomes inconsistent.

    A big part of the GM's fun in TTRPGs is improving off that. Players always ruin my plans, but that's part of the game.

    K 1 Reply Last reply 20 May 2025, 00:09
    55
    • B bleatingzombie@lemmy.world
      19 May 2025, 17:37

      That makes sense! I've always wanted to run a campaign (even though I've never really played) so I try to take guidance from stories like these

      Thank you!

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      don_alforno@feddit.org
      wrote on 19 May 2025, 18:55 last edited by
      #14

      You could also just have it work and go with whatever follows from it though.

      I believe you should have a plot prepared but you also shouldn't be afraid to adapt it if the players do something unexpected.
      It's more work, but in my experience players can usually smell when you're just trying to block them. And they will derive fun from having found out your plans early (which is totally ok to tell them).

      S 1 Reply Last reply 19 May 2025, 19:51
      13
      • ? Guest
        19 May 2025, 15:05
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        denjin@lemmings.world
        wrote on 19 May 2025, 19:01 last edited by
        #15

        If you've railroaded your campaign that much you're a bad GM. It's not your story, it's your players story.

        D P S 3 Replies Last reply 19 May 2025, 22:15
        13
        • ? Guest
          19 May 2025, 15:05
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          icastfist@programming.dev
          wrote on 19 May 2025, 19:05 last edited by
          #16

          Having your complex plot get fast forwarded because of a cantrip, priceless 😆😆😆😆😆

          J 1 Reply Last reply 19 May 2025, 20:58
          47
          • B bleatingzombie@lemmy.world
            19 May 2025, 17:30

            I'm extremely naive when it comes to tabletop RPGs

            Is there any kind of "plot says no" response to magic? Something like the doors in oblivion where you need a key to unlock

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            themeatbridge@lemmy.world
            wrote on 19 May 2025, 19:35 last edited by
            #17

            "You can certainly try"

            1 Reply Last reply
            10
            • D don_alforno@feddit.org
              19 May 2025, 18:55

              You could also just have it work and go with whatever follows from it though.

              I believe you should have a plot prepared but you also shouldn't be afraid to adapt it if the players do something unexpected.
              It's more work, but in my experience players can usually smell when you're just trying to block them. And they will derive fun from having found out your plans early (which is totally ok to tell them).

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              solorion@sh.itjust.works
              wrote on 19 May 2025, 19:51 last edited by solorion@sh.itjust.works
              #18

              Ime, players are entirely willing to accept an extremely short session just so I can prep and set back up after they throw me a massive curveball. If you're capable of doing it on the fly, that's great, but I'm not and my players usually understand.

              Had a twelve minute session once because I forgot I gave the party a foldable boat like three months ago on a whim, and they used it to skip the next ~3 sessions of content. I had an entire thing setup where they'd help a dwarfhold hunt a dragon, and had started on some city-based intrigue in the next area.

              I just leveled with them that I had not even slightly expected this session to go this way and had nothing prepped so we'd stop early and pick it up next time.

              1 Reply Last reply
              11
              • ? Guest
                19 May 2025, 15:05
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                grue@lemmy.world
                wrote on 19 May 2025, 20:01 last edited by
                #19

                The crown completely disintegrates, as it was rust all the way through

                Sorry, Mario, the real crown is in another dungeon.

                S 1 Reply Last reply 19 May 2025, 22:41
                72
                • I icastfist@programming.dev
                  19 May 2025, 19:05

                  Having your complex plot get fast forwarded because of a cantrip, priceless 😆😆😆😆😆

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                  jesus_666@lemmy.world
                  wrote on 19 May 2025, 20:58 last edited by
                  #20

                  I once fast-forwarded a complex plot through a GM-sanctioned bit of fluff.

                  The party had been invited by their uncle who turned out to be recently murdered when they arrived. Of course they investigated. At one point I had my character wrote a letter to the rest of the family to inform them of what was going on. I actually produced the letter as a handout. Since I had no idea about the date I asked the GM and he told me to pick anything in summer.

                  The GM s happy with the handout and it was deemed canonical.

                  A few sessions later he noticed that I had picked something ahead the end of the summer and the bad guys' plot was about to kick off at a specific date right after summer ends. So suddenly the adventure went from "careful slow-burn investigation" to "mad rush to the location of the finale".

                  Oops.

                  M 1 Reply Last reply 19 May 2025, 21:10
                  27
                  • J jesus_666@lemmy.world
                    19 May 2025, 20:58

                    I once fast-forwarded a complex plot through a GM-sanctioned bit of fluff.

                    The party had been invited by their uncle who turned out to be recently murdered when they arrived. Of course they investigated. At one point I had my character wrote a letter to the rest of the family to inform them of what was going on. I actually produced the letter as a handout. Since I had no idea about the date I asked the GM and he told me to pick anything in summer.

                    The GM s happy with the handout and it was deemed canonical.

                    A few sessions later he noticed that I had picked something ahead the end of the summer and the bad guys' plot was about to kick off at a specific date right after summer ends. So suddenly the adventure went from "careful slow-burn investigation" to "mad rush to the location of the finale".

                    Oops.

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                    mesophar@pawb.social
                    wrote on 19 May 2025, 21:10 last edited by
                    #21

                    Couldn't they have gone the other route and made the villain's plans a year later? But sounds like it was a lot of fun the way it was run!

                    J 1 Reply Last reply 19 May 2025, 21:28
                    13
                    • M mesophar@pawb.social
                      19 May 2025, 21:10

                      Couldn't they have gone the other route and made the villain's plans a year later? But sounds like it was a lot of fun the way it was run!

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                      jesus_666@lemmy.world
                      wrote on 19 May 2025, 21:28 last edited by
                      #22

                      The idea was to have some kind of urgency but only once the players were far enough to understand the basics of what was going on. To that end, the date was supposed to be vague so that the GM was free to say "you figured out that the ritual will happen right after summer ends – which is in less than a week".

                      Then he forgot that the timeframe was vague when I wrote the letter and told me to pick a date.

                      Unfortunately, this cut out a side plot where our party would've hired another party to hunt down some artifact. That artifact retroactively got downgraded to a red herring for time reasons.

                      On the other hand, we got an absolutely precious scene where the one party member who wasn't magic-affine and didn't want to be involved with any supernatural stuff had to ride an unnaturally fast six-legged half-demon horse in order to catch up with the bad guys.

                      Also, it cut down on all the "three wizards and a vintner have breakfast and discuss the state of the investigation" episodes. We had a lot of those.

                      I D 2 Replies Last reply 20 May 2025, 10:44
                      15
                      • D denjin@lemmings.world
                        19 May 2025, 19:01

                        If you've railroaded your campaign that much you're a bad GM. It's not your story, it's your players story.

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                        dmmacniel@feddit.org
                        wrote on 19 May 2025, 22:15 last edited by dmmacniel@feddit.org
                        #23

                        Rollercoaster are fun yet have rails.

                        Are you even a GM to allow yourself such snap judgment? But for you know, we GM/DMs are not your employees RPGs are a group collaboration.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        11
                        • D denjin@lemmings.world
                          19 May 2025, 19:01

                          If you've railroaded your campaign that much you're a bad GM. It's not your story, it's your players story.

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                          pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                          wrote on 19 May 2025, 22:40 last edited by
                          #24

                          How is this in any way railroading?

                          Z 1 Reply Last reply 19 May 2025, 23:03
                          4
                          • G grue@lemmy.world
                            19 May 2025, 20:01

                            The crown completely disintegrates, as it was rust all the way through

                            Sorry, Mario, the real crown is in another dungeon.

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                            skaverat@discuss.tchncs.de
                            wrote on 19 May 2025, 22:41 last edited by
                            #25

                            the real crown was the XP we collected along the way

                            G 1 Reply Last reply 20 May 2025, 11:07
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                            • C cenotaph@mander.xyz
                              19 May 2025, 17:33

                              Really, what the DM says goes. So if you want to be boring you can just say it doesn't work for some reason. The answer above re: pivoting to it being a powerful illusion spell or something so there is a reason the spell didn't work is a lot more compelling and interesting imo

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                              kichae@lemmy.ca
                              wrote on 19 May 2025, 22:43 last edited by
                              #26

                              Retconing things to protect muh precious twists is not compelling, though, it's just base metagaming. The unwavering plot is the GM equivalent of the 8 page main character syndrome PC backstory. If I found out my GM was doing that, they wouldn't be my GM anymore.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              3
                              • P pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                19 May 2025, 22:40

                                How is this in any way railroading?

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                                zoomboingding@lemmy.world
                                wrote on 19 May 2025, 23:03 last edited by
                                #27

                                The DM determined that A) the players would find this crown, B) they would not clean it when they found it, and C) it would get cleaned at some point the DM decides later, whether the players wanted it to or not. Good for a book, bad for D&D.

                                P 1 Reply Last reply 20 May 2025, 02:54
                                0
                                • S sbv@sh.itjust.works
                                  19 May 2025, 18:49

                                  We don't do that here. The GM provides the model of physics the players accept and expect. If the GM just says "nah" when stuff is inconvenient, players don't know what to expect, and the world becomes inconsistent.

                                  A big part of the GM's fun in TTRPGs is improving off that. Players always ruin my plans, but that's part of the game.

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                                  kichae@wanderingadventure.party
                                  wrote on 20 May 2025, 00:09 last edited by
                                  #28

                                  Yes, exactly. Consistency is important, because it builds and reinforces trust. The GM just saying "nah" is the other side of the player showing up with a homebrew bullshit build.

                                  I get a lot of pushback from the Pathfinder 2e subreddit for promoting the idea that the system is really great for character-driven, fiction-first tables, because everyone just looks at the number of rules and goes "it's so obviously a gameist system, why would you ever try to run it as anything else?", and the answer is it's a fantastic physics system. The rules provide clarity and consistency where it's really useful or important, and are easily ignorable where it doesn't matter.

                                  C S 2 Replies Last reply 20 May 2025, 08:46
                                  16
                                  • H hypnicjerk@lemmy.world
                                    19 May 2025, 18:45

                                    there's two answers to this question, one is mechanical and one is social. you as the DM can tell the players no not now, and they can't do anything about it, but that doesn't mean they won't try to do something about it, which depending on the group could be an issue.

                                    so in this scenario a good DM could whip up some misdirection, for example set up a traveling artificer who just passed through town a couple weeks back and who the players could track down as a lead - conveniently in the direction of the main quest objective.

                                    this is hard to do on the spot.

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                                    drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                    wrote on 20 May 2025, 00:11 last edited by drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                    #29

                                    IMO this is kinda one of the problems with DnD 5e, at least if you want to do certain kinds of stories.

                                    The players just have so many tools at their disposal to do anything and everything that its hard to put them into a challenging situation that:

                                    A) Doesn't involve combat

                                    and

                                    B) Isn't a completely artificial-feeling scenario that's been engineered specifically to negate all of the "I don't have to care about this" buttons that players have on their sheets.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    3
                                    • D denjin@lemmings.world
                                      19 May 2025, 19:01

                                      If you've railroaded your campaign that much you're a bad GM. It's not your story, it's your players story.

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                                      solorion@sh.itjust.works
                                      wrote on 20 May 2025, 01:42 last edited by
                                      #30

                                      I hate this take a lot, I'm gonna be honest. I don't care if his game is so on rails that it's set on the fucking orient express. As long as the players are having fun with the game, and the GM is having fun with the game.. that's a good GM.

                                      G 1 Reply Last reply 20 May 2025, 11:10
                                      10
                                      • S sbv@sh.itjust.works
                                        19 May 2025, 15:08

                                        improv intensifies

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                                        josefo@leminal.space
                                        wrote on 20 May 2025, 02:53 last edited by
                                        #31

                                        I learned that best things come from the right balance between preparation and improvisation. And that balance is approximately 20-80 respectively, at best. I figured that as a DM, I'm also playing, so I roll with my fellow table partners, as the story is unexpected for me as is for them.

                                        S 1 Reply Last reply 20 May 2025, 03:38
                                        9
                                        • Z zoomboingding@lemmy.world
                                          19 May 2025, 23:03

                                          The DM determined that A) the players would find this crown, B) they would not clean it when they found it, and C) it would get cleaned at some point the DM decides later, whether the players wanted it to or not. Good for a book, bad for D&D.

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                                          pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                                          wrote on 20 May 2025, 02:54 last edited by
                                          #32

                                          ....

                                          A) this makes no sense to describe as railroading, apparently finding anything plot or backstory related is railroading?

                                          B & C) Players not doing what a dm expects isn't railroading. If the dm then turned around and said "no you don't do that" or decides to make it impervious to prestidigitation, that might fit the definition.

                                          Railroading is removing player agency and not giving players choices. Players just doing something unexpected that throws you for a loop? That's called DMing.

                                          Z 1 Reply Last reply 20 May 2025, 13:38
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