A sovereign Microsoft 365 alternative: Nextcloud and IONOS join forces - Nextcloud
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Have you tried hiring a couple humans? They're much better than AI. And you help your local (physical or virtual) economy!
Yes, I love giving other people access to my private pictures I explicitly don't host on Google, Dropbox or other external clouds. I usually pay them from the hoard of gold that's stashed away under my bed.
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Yes, I love giving other people access to my private pictures I explicitly don't host on Google, Dropbox or other external clouds. I usually pay them from the hoard of gold that's stashed away under my bed.
Trusting humans (to any extent) is quite vastly different than trusting corporations, to be honest. But if that's your jingle, you can always do the work with a bulk tagger / gallery assembler. No AI, nor environment killing, needed.
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It's an alternative, but IONOS honestly fucking sucks as well, so I'm feeling pretty ambivalent about this.
What's wrong with IONOS? Their VPS prices are some of the best out there and reliability has never been an issue for me.
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Please tell me they're not writing it in php.
Owncloud infinite scale seems, well, much more scalable
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It's an alternative, but IONOS honestly fucking sucks as well, so I'm feeling pretty ambivalent about this.
Ionos used to be 1&1 which had a fairly poor reputation. Not sure what it's become nowadays. Apparently they haven't gotten much better.
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Nah, it'll be CGI.
Cool, I've always wanted to get back into Perl.
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Sure that's why I drive my 4wd anywhere i want to go - i don't want or need 4wd but I can just not use that functionality.
Sorry what office suite is basic NC functionality that has been there for a long time?
Your analogy doesn't make any sense, so I assume you really don't know. So let me explain:
If you buy a 4wd, it's always a 4wd, usually that means s relatively large vehicle. You might be able to turn it to 2wd, but it doesn't make the car smaller. If you just needed a tiny car in all (or most cases), you can't push a button to make it smaller. You always drive around the extra equipment to possibly make it 4wd.
Nextcloud is plugin based. Assuming this isn't locked away on an instance like this, you can literally push a button and make that whole functionality go away everywhere. You can fully remove that 'clutter', if that's of no use to you. They are offering it always, as it adds no additional effort on the hosters side: they don't need to add gear boxes or whatever to make it have calendar & contacts. If you don't want/need it, turn it off and it's gone.
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Oh shit
This will undoubtedly have a major impact against Microsoft and even perhaps Google.
AI-powered productivity features.
Everything is pretty sweet except ^the AI productivity features. Hopefully the AI portions are optional opt-ins rather than it being preincluded opt-outs.
I have a nextcloud instance and I can confirm that the ai features are plugins, and are opt-in (and also pretty cool, as ai feature go)
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Nextcloud is so slow and brittle, I can’t imagine scaling
I was in the same boat and therefore my nextcloud instance was mostly running for backwards compatibility with a few setups I have, while I mostly use seafile, immich and sogo. But a few days ago I updated to nextcloud hub 10 (I think that's with nextcloud 31 under the hood) and damn does that run smooth. I was so impressed I got motivated to finally setup the high performance backend for nc talk.
I still dislike PHP, but nextcloud just won back my heart a little.
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What's wrong with IONOS? Their VPS prices are some of the best out there and reliability has never been an issue for me.
I've had the opposite experience with their cloud services in a professional context. My biggest gripe is with United Internet, the monopolistic company that owns IONOS, 1&1 (an ISP) as well as the ad-ridden, flaming pile of garbage that are GMX and WEB.DE, two of the most popular email service providers in Germany as well as a constant source of pain for anyone operating an Email server. They will ignore common industry standards and best-practices, silently block your mailserver for absolutely no reason, not respond to inquiries and just generally make the internet a slightly worse place for small to medium sized businesses and selfhosters.
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As organizations are looking to reclaim their digital sovereignty, IONOS and Nextcloud are building the fully featured office suite “Nextcloud Workspace”: a powerful Microsoft 365 alternative. As long-standing partners, we have the expertise to enable large companies and organizations with an all-round office suite as European answer to US products. Announced at the Nextcloud Summit earlier this month, this collaboration for digitally sovereign office software that meets the highest data protection requirements will launch in 2025.
To meet the rigorous needs of public institutions and enterprises, Nextcloud Workspace will integrate a full range of collaboration tools, including file storage and sharing, document editing, email, calendaring, video conferencing, chat, and AI-powered productivity features. Of course, this offering will be fully GDPR compliant and securely hosted in Europe.
Organizations can trust Nextcloud to deliver a fully integrated office and collaboration suite, thanks to the company’s experience in creating the world’s leading private cloud platform. IONOS, Europe’s largest cloud and hosting provider, is the ideal partner to ensure full GDPR compliance and protection from US legal exposure. Hosting will be managed exclusively in Germany, at IONOS’ extensive network of data centers.
Is this just hosted nextcloud with collabora office pre installed?
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I was in the same boat and therefore my nextcloud instance was mostly running for backwards compatibility with a few setups I have, while I mostly use seafile, immich and sogo. But a few days ago I updated to nextcloud hub 10 (I think that's with nextcloud 31 under the hood) and damn does that run smooth. I was so impressed I got motivated to finally setup the high performance backend for nc talk.
I still dislike PHP, but nextcloud just won back my heart a little.
Why do you dislike PHP?
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Why do you dislike PHP?
Not OP, and I don't particularly hate PHP but I certainly understand why everyone else does. It had a ton of horrible issues that didn't get fixed until 8. Just really awful stuff like a23+n7=30 , inconsistent syntax, It's just had a lot of holes over the years. Post perl, It had the next greatest number of plugins and was reasonably rapid so it took off with the inexperienced crowd, But we ended up with a lot of code written by a lot of inexperienced people and a lot of best practices were eschewed. Most of the big software names that run PHP have had a constant stream of really bad vulnerabilities, more so than a lot of other languages. (WordPress, PHPBB, vbulletin, a million horribly written WordPress plugins)
Personally, in a pinch I'll still do something in PHP. It's so incredibly rapid and gives you marginally decent debug right out of the gate with nothing installed.
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Your analogy doesn't make any sense, so I assume you really don't know. So let me explain:
If you buy a 4wd, it's always a 4wd, usually that means s relatively large vehicle. You might be able to turn it to 2wd, but it doesn't make the car smaller. If you just needed a tiny car in all (or most cases), you can't push a button to make it smaller. You always drive around the extra equipment to possibly make it 4wd.
Nextcloud is plugin based. Assuming this isn't locked away on an instance like this, you can literally push a button and make that whole functionality go away everywhere. You can fully remove that 'clutter', if that's of no use to you. They are offering it always, as it adds no additional effort on the hosters side: they don't need to add gear boxes or whatever to make it have calendar & contacts. If you don't want/need it, turn it off and it's gone.
Like any analogy, it doesn't perfectly map to the complex issue being analogised (?), but it's not as absurd as you're making out.
The architecture for plugin support is not free. Even if no plugins are active the platform is built to support all the extra nonsense.
lighttpd is the leanest webdav implementation i can think of. Obviously it doesn't have sync and sharing and permissions, but it's an interesting point of reference demonstrating how over engineered nextcloud really is.
If you're a fan, and want all of this stuff bundled together then fine, have at it. As I said up top, I am using it but I dislike it immensely.
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Like any analogy, it doesn't perfectly map to the complex issue being analogised (?), but it's not as absurd as you're making out.
The architecture for plugin support is not free. Even if no plugins are active the platform is built to support all the extra nonsense.
lighttpd is the leanest webdav implementation i can think of. Obviously it doesn't have sync and sharing and permissions, but it's an interesting point of reference demonstrating how over engineered nextcloud really is.
If you're a fan, and want all of this stuff bundled together then fine, have at it. As I said up top, I am using it but I dislike it immensely.
wrote last edited by [email protected]As far as analogies go, is pretty far off. It doesn't hold even for basic behaviors of the two cases, let alone complex ones. A better analogy would be that you buy a (small) car that always happens to come with an included, free trailer for more cargo capacity. You can of course take it off and have a small car. And it's also as magic trailer that doesn't take up any space at all when not in use, but can also not be sold.
I'm actually not a fan, an am also using it somewhat reluctantly personally, though self hosted. I've had my issues with it, but an still using it because it solves some issues that are much harder to solve without it. I'm not using the contacts/calendar functionality.
But your original statement was that you couldn't understand who would need calendar and contacts (in their file sharing app). There's enough I object to in this statement that I wrote my comment. First of, in this context, specifically in their article/blog/whatever, it's about nextcloud as a whole, not the fact that it can do file sharing. That's what it evolved from, but not all it is any more, more better or worse. Secondly, it's about an advertised alternative to O365, which includes the very common and almost universal requirement for teams (be it a company, family, ...) to have events (=calendar) like schedule meetings with people (=contacts). Even if you work with just like 5 people you are probably gonna need that. There you probably want to share files, but probably more so it's about the office functionality and collaborative, simultaneous editing of files. Obviously replacing Word, PowerPoint, Excel. And yes, Outlook (calendar,& contacts, also email).
This isn't meant for individuals who need a few GB to store some files. It's for teams of some description that need office like, cloud based tools.
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As organizations are looking to reclaim their digital sovereignty, IONOS and Nextcloud are building the fully featured office suite “Nextcloud Workspace”: a powerful Microsoft 365 alternative. As long-standing partners, we have the expertise to enable large companies and organizations with an all-round office suite as European answer to US products. Announced at the Nextcloud Summit earlier this month, this collaboration for digitally sovereign office software that meets the highest data protection requirements will launch in 2025.
To meet the rigorous needs of public institutions and enterprises, Nextcloud Workspace will integrate a full range of collaboration tools, including file storage and sharing, document editing, email, calendaring, video conferencing, chat, and AI-powered productivity features. Of course, this offering will be fully GDPR compliant and securely hosted in Europe.
Organizations can trust Nextcloud to deliver a fully integrated office and collaboration suite, thanks to the company’s experience in creating the world’s leading private cloud platform. IONOS, Europe’s largest cloud and hosting provider, is the ideal partner to ensure full GDPR compliance and protection from US legal exposure. Hosting will be managed exclusively in Germany, at IONOS’ extensive network of data centers.
Intentional BSOD-coloured branding?
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As far as analogies go, is pretty far off. It doesn't hold even for basic behaviors of the two cases, let alone complex ones. A better analogy would be that you buy a (small) car that always happens to come with an included, free trailer for more cargo capacity. You can of course take it off and have a small car. And it's also as magic trailer that doesn't take up any space at all when not in use, but can also not be sold.
I'm actually not a fan, an am also using it somewhat reluctantly personally, though self hosted. I've had my issues with it, but an still using it because it solves some issues that are much harder to solve without it. I'm not using the contacts/calendar functionality.
But your original statement was that you couldn't understand who would need calendar and contacts (in their file sharing app). There's enough I object to in this statement that I wrote my comment. First of, in this context, specifically in their article/blog/whatever, it's about nextcloud as a whole, not the fact that it can do file sharing. That's what it evolved from, but not all it is any more, more better or worse. Secondly, it's about an advertised alternative to O365, which includes the very common and almost universal requirement for teams (be it a company, family, ...) to have events (=calendar) like schedule meetings with people (=contacts). Even if you work with just like 5 people you are probably gonna need that. There you probably want to share files, but probably more so it's about the office functionality and collaborative, simultaneous editing of files. Obviously replacing Word, PowerPoint, Excel. And yes, Outlook (calendar,& contacts, also email).
This isn't meant for individuals who need a few GB to store some files. It's for teams of some description that need office like, cloud based tools.
Good lord. I'm not having a debate about the adequacy of an analogy. Well done.
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As organizations are looking to reclaim their digital sovereignty, IONOS and Nextcloud are building the fully featured office suite “Nextcloud Workspace”: a powerful Microsoft 365 alternative. As long-standing partners, we have the expertise to enable large companies and organizations with an all-round office suite as European answer to US products. Announced at the Nextcloud Summit earlier this month, this collaboration for digitally sovereign office software that meets the highest data protection requirements will launch in 2025.
To meet the rigorous needs of public institutions and enterprises, Nextcloud Workspace will integrate a full range of collaboration tools, including file storage and sharing, document editing, email, calendaring, video conferencing, chat, and AI-powered productivity features. Of course, this offering will be fully GDPR compliant and securely hosted in Europe.
Organizations can trust Nextcloud to deliver a fully integrated office and collaboration suite, thanks to the company’s experience in creating the world’s leading private cloud platform. IONOS, Europe’s largest cloud and hosting provider, is the ideal partner to ensure full GDPR compliance and protection from US legal exposure. Hosting will be managed exclusively in Germany, at IONOS’ extensive network of data centers.
I've moved away from Nextcloud
It is such a pain to maintain and is way complicated
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Why do you dislike PHP?
I don't like the syntax, the runtime environment (which runs interpreted) and for PHP more than many other languages (aside from JS), a lot of code out there is hacked together horribly which makes me completely distrust the community.
Personally I stay away from anything that doesn't have a compiler.
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I've moved away from Nextcloud
It is such a pain to maintain and is way complicated
Using YunoHost saves a lot of hassles
