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  3. You have fucked around. Time to find out

You have fucked around. Time to find out

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  • T [email protected]

    I was GM'ing this game. The premise was that the goddesses created the world as this perfectly idyllic place -- an absolute utopia that I frequently compared to Mayberry RFD -- until the shit hit the fan. An ancient evil awakened and turned it into an absolute post-apocalyptic wasteland. Except for the single most populous city which the goddesses managed to shield from the corrupting influence of the ancient evil (before themselves succumbing to the corrupting influence). (A few fortunate pockets here and there also escaped the corruption.)

    The PCs were the most murder-hobo of murder hobos. There was a town of halflings who continued their happy lives from before the calamity by day but turned into demons by night, not remembering anything come morning. The party marched them all (children included) into the schoolhouse, barricaded them in, and set fire to it. When they ran across a few dwarves who had retained their sanity, they robbed them blind. In the one city which was fully shielded from the ancient evil, they fireballed a procession of a dozen or so devout monks to take out one cultist hiding among them. That all just to name a few of their heinous crimes.

    Of course, in response to all of this, the central city put out arrest warrants on the party. They were going to be dragged into court and hung out to dry whether they liked it or not. I had a whole court scene planned.

    But it never happened.

    They sneaked into town, publicly executed the mayor and the sheriff, and installed the local crime boss as the new mayor.

    southsamurai@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
    southsamurai@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
    [email protected]
    wrote on last edited by
    #3

    Jfc, that group goes hard

    1 Reply Last reply
    34
    • T [email protected]

      I was GM'ing this game. The premise was that the goddesses created the world as this perfectly idyllic place -- an absolute utopia that I frequently compared to Mayberry RFD -- until the shit hit the fan. An ancient evil awakened and turned it into an absolute post-apocalyptic wasteland. Except for the single most populous city which the goddesses managed to shield from the corrupting influence of the ancient evil (before themselves succumbing to the corrupting influence). (A few fortunate pockets here and there also escaped the corruption.)

      The PCs were the most murder-hobo of murder hobos. There was a town of halflings who continued their happy lives from before the calamity by day but turned into demons by night, not remembering anything come morning. The party marched them all (children included) into the schoolhouse, barricaded them in, and set fire to it. When they ran across a few dwarves who had retained their sanity, they robbed them blind. In the one city which was fully shielded from the ancient evil, they fireballed a procession of a dozen or so devout monks to take out one cultist hiding among them. That all just to name a few of their heinous crimes.

      Of course, in response to all of this, the central city put out arrest warrants on the party. They were going to be dragged into court and hung out to dry whether they liked it or not. I had a whole court scene planned.

      But it never happened.

      They sneaked into town, publicly executed the mayor and the sheriff, and installed the local crime boss as the new mayor.

      mydarkesttimeline01@ani.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
      mydarkesttimeline01@ani.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
      [email protected]
      wrote on last edited by
      #4

      I am so sorry you had to endure that. I'm all for combat. And I do enjoy when my DM crafts a session with it in mind. But to just, hijack(shit all over) the story the DM has made just doesn't sit well with me.

      spankmonkey@lemmy.worldS 1 Reply Last reply
      24
      • ? Guest
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        susaga@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
        susaga@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
        [email protected]
        wrote on last edited by
        #5

        Putting a "random" encounter that didn't exist five minutes earlier in the path of your players, knowing it will be a TPK, is the DM version of murder hobo-ing. You're ignoring the logic of the game and the feelings of the other players so you can have fun killing things. You're not fixing the problem, you're becoming part of it.

        H S aielman15@lemmy.worldA B A 5 Replies Last reply
        14
        • ? Guest
          This post did not contain any content.
          ininewcrow@lemmy.caI This user is from outside of this forum
          ininewcrow@lemmy.caI This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote on last edited by
          #6

          One of my favourite lines from the internet I've enjoyed recently ....

          "If you don't fuck around .... how are you ever going to find out?"

          https://youtube.com/shorts/GKPU8lNEAZ4

          1 Reply Last reply
          32
          • susaga@sh.itjust.worksS [email protected]

            Putting a "random" encounter that didn't exist five minutes earlier in the path of your players, knowing it will be a TPK, is the DM version of murder hobo-ing. You're ignoring the logic of the game and the feelings of the other players so you can have fun killing things. You're not fixing the problem, you're becoming part of it.

            H This user is from outside of this forum
            H This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote on last edited by
            #7

            i don't see the issue, in theory. if players have chosen to live by the sword, the dm is meeting them on their level by allowing them to die by the sword.

            and you never know, maybe it's an op party that could make it a close match. maybe the players had warnings and brought the god's wrath on their heads anyway.

            as with all things, there are contexts where it is appropriate and contexts where it is a wild overreaction. but this is a meme comm, not a nuance factory.

            susaga@sh.itjust.worksS 1 Reply Last reply
            30
            • susaga@sh.itjust.worksS [email protected]

              Putting a "random" encounter that didn't exist five minutes earlier in the path of your players, knowing it will be a TPK, is the DM version of murder hobo-ing. You're ignoring the logic of the game and the feelings of the other players so you can have fun killing things. You're not fixing the problem, you're becoming part of it.

              S This user is from outside of this forum
              S This user is from outside of this forum
              [email protected]
              wrote on last edited by
              #8

              It’s telling you think the only thing that can come from that situation is a TPK. Nobody’s ever made a threat to “straighten up or else”, as the most basic and uninspired alternative possibility.

              susaga@sh.itjust.worksS 1 Reply Last reply
              28
              • S [email protected]

                It’s telling you think the only thing that can come from that situation is a TPK. Nobody’s ever made a threat to “straighten up or else”, as the most basic and uninspired alternative possibility.

                susaga@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
                susaga@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
                [email protected]
                wrote on last edited by [email protected]
                #9

                The post is about a seething GM putting their players who always start a fight against someone unassuming, but undefeatable. What exactly do you think the DM in the meme is trying to do?

                spankmonkey@lemmy.worldS 1 Reply Last reply
                7
                • H [email protected]

                  i don't see the issue, in theory. if players have chosen to live by the sword, the dm is meeting them on their level by allowing them to die by the sword.

                  and you never know, maybe it's an op party that could make it a close match. maybe the players had warnings and brought the god's wrath on their heads anyway.

                  as with all things, there are contexts where it is appropriate and contexts where it is a wild overreaction. but this is a meme comm, not a nuance factory.

                  susaga@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
                  susaga@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #10

                  Then the meme doesn't make sense. The DM doesn't look like they're having fun, they look spiteful. If the DM's actions aren't spiteful, the meme is poorly made.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  2
                  • mydarkesttimeline01@ani.socialM [email protected]

                    I am so sorry you had to endure that. I'm all for combat. And I do enjoy when my DM crafts a session with it in mind. But to just, hijack(shit all over) the story the DM has made just doesn't sit well with me.

                    spankmonkey@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
                    spankmonkey@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
                    [email protected]
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #11

                    That is why it is necessary to be on the same page about the expectations for the group.

                    mydarkesttimeline01@ani.socialM 1 Reply Last reply
                    24
                    • susaga@sh.itjust.worksS [email protected]

                      The post is about a seething GM putting their players who always start a fight against someone unassuming, but undefeatable. What exactly do you think the DM in the meme is trying to do?

                      spankmonkey@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
                      spankmonkey@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
                      [email protected]
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #12

                      Starting a fight with an undefeatable opponent does not guarantee a TPK. They could be swatted around a bit, learn a lesson, and move on. They could realize it immediately and handle the situation without violence. They could do lots of things.

                      You are right that the point is to offer them a chance to fuck around and find out, but that doesn't always mean TPK.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      37
                      • spankmonkey@lemmy.worldS [email protected]

                        That is why it is necessary to be on the same page about the expectations for the group.

                        mydarkesttimeline01@ani.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                        mydarkesttimeline01@ani.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                        [email protected]
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #13

                        Agreed, but even with managed expectations it's a balancing act. Both from the players and the DM. Everyone is trying to get something out of their experience at the table, and it needs to have give and take. Murderhoboing just seems like the most selfish thing a player can do. It takes away from everyone else involved. You destroy plot hooks from other players, derail the story from the DM, sabotage combat for the combat players, outright deny roleplay for the RP players, and disregard a DMs crafting. I can even 'understand' spotlight hogs. But murderhobos seem to only get enjoyment from denying others.

                        spankmonkey@lemmy.worldS 1 Reply Last reply
                        12
                        • mydarkesttimeline01@ani.socialM [email protected]

                          Agreed, but even with managed expectations it's a balancing act. Both from the players and the DM. Everyone is trying to get something out of their experience at the table, and it needs to have give and take. Murderhoboing just seems like the most selfish thing a player can do. It takes away from everyone else involved. You destroy plot hooks from other players, derail the story from the DM, sabotage combat for the combat players, outright deny roleplay for the RP players, and disregard a DMs crafting. I can even 'understand' spotlight hogs. But murderhobos seem to only get enjoyment from denying others.

                          spankmonkey@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
                          spankmonkey@lemmy.worldS This user is from outside of this forum
                          [email protected]
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #14

                          When all the characters are murder hobos it isn't about being selfish, just how they approach the world. If everyone is on the same page, including the DM, that style can be a blast for everyone!

                          It is only an issue when people aren't on the same page, then it can result in the things you mentioned.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          14
                          • T [email protected]

                            I was GM'ing this game. The premise was that the goddesses created the world as this perfectly idyllic place -- an absolute utopia that I frequently compared to Mayberry RFD -- until the shit hit the fan. An ancient evil awakened and turned it into an absolute post-apocalyptic wasteland. Except for the single most populous city which the goddesses managed to shield from the corrupting influence of the ancient evil (before themselves succumbing to the corrupting influence). (A few fortunate pockets here and there also escaped the corruption.)

                            The PCs were the most murder-hobo of murder hobos. There was a town of halflings who continued their happy lives from before the calamity by day but turned into demons by night, not remembering anything come morning. The party marched them all (children included) into the schoolhouse, barricaded them in, and set fire to it. When they ran across a few dwarves who had retained their sanity, they robbed them blind. In the one city which was fully shielded from the ancient evil, they fireballed a procession of a dozen or so devout monks to take out one cultist hiding among them. That all just to name a few of their heinous crimes.

                            Of course, in response to all of this, the central city put out arrest warrants on the party. They were going to be dragged into court and hung out to dry whether they liked it or not. I had a whole court scene planned.

                            But it never happened.

                            They sneaked into town, publicly executed the mayor and the sheriff, and installed the local crime boss as the new mayor.

                            K This user is from outside of this forum
                            K This user is from outside of this forum
                            [email protected]
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #15

                            Was it fun for you to GM that game?

                            T 1 Reply Last reply
                            16
                            • T [email protected]

                              I was GM'ing this game. The premise was that the goddesses created the world as this perfectly idyllic place -- an absolute utopia that I frequently compared to Mayberry RFD -- until the shit hit the fan. An ancient evil awakened and turned it into an absolute post-apocalyptic wasteland. Except for the single most populous city which the goddesses managed to shield from the corrupting influence of the ancient evil (before themselves succumbing to the corrupting influence). (A few fortunate pockets here and there also escaped the corruption.)

                              The PCs were the most murder-hobo of murder hobos. There was a town of halflings who continued their happy lives from before the calamity by day but turned into demons by night, not remembering anything come morning. The party marched them all (children included) into the schoolhouse, barricaded them in, and set fire to it. When they ran across a few dwarves who had retained their sanity, they robbed them blind. In the one city which was fully shielded from the ancient evil, they fireballed a procession of a dozen or so devout monks to take out one cultist hiding among them. That all just to name a few of their heinous crimes.

                              Of course, in response to all of this, the central city put out arrest warrants on the party. They were going to be dragged into court and hung out to dry whether they liked it or not. I had a whole court scene planned.

                              But it never happened.

                              They sneaked into town, publicly executed the mayor and the sheriff, and installed the local crime boss as the new mayor.

                              K This user is from outside of this forum
                              K This user is from outside of this forum
                              [email protected]
                              wrote on last edited by [email protected]
                              #16

                              I'm sure you don't need to be told, but for those who are reading and need to hear it: the most powerful and healthy thing a GM can do is say no. The GM gets to arbitrate the tone of the game and setting, and healthy boundaries are conducive to both fun and creativity.

                              Z 1 Reply Last reply
                              61
                              • K [email protected]

                                I'm sure you don't need to be told, but for those who are reading and need to hear it: the most powerful and healthy thing a GM can do is say no. The GM gets to arbitrate the tone of the game and setting, and healthy boundaries are conducive to both fun and creativity.

                                Z This user is from outside of this forum
                                Z This user is from outside of this forum
                                [email protected]
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #17

                                Actually OP handled it pretty well, at least in the end . PC face consequences for their actions (a trial with the risk of being hung) and end up having to act to solve the problem. It's somehow created more game opportunities.

                                samus12345@lemm.eeS 1 Reply Last reply
                                55
                                • susaga@sh.itjust.worksS [email protected]

                                  Putting a "random" encounter that didn't exist five minutes earlier in the path of your players, knowing it will be a TPK, is the DM version of murder hobo-ing. You're ignoring the logic of the game and the feelings of the other players so you can have fun killing things. You're not fixing the problem, you're becoming part of it.

                                  aielman15@lemmy.worldA This user is from outside of this forum
                                  aielman15@lemmy.worldA This user is from outside of this forum
                                  [email protected]
                                  wrote on last edited by [email protected]
                                  #18

                                  "They hated him because he told them the truth"

                                  I agree, there are tons of different approaches a DM should take instead of just killing their party for no reason.

                                  The main one would be to have a discussion with their players about what kind of campaign they want to run, so that everyone is on the same page.

                                  Everyone at the table has the right to have fun, players and DM alike. But it should be a team effort.

                                  susaga@sh.itjust.worksS 1 Reply Last reply
                                  16
                                  • aielman15@lemmy.worldA [email protected]

                                    "They hated him because he told them the truth"

                                    I agree, there are tons of different approaches a DM should take instead of just killing their party for no reason.

                                    The main one would be to have a discussion with their players about what kind of campaign they want to run, so that everyone is on the same page.

                                    Everyone at the table has the right to have fun, players and DM alike. But it should be a team effort.

                                    susaga@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
                                    susaga@sh.itjust.worksS This user is from outside of this forum
                                    [email protected]
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #19

                                    I never get more hate than when I say "hey, this toxic DM behaviour is bad and you shouldn't do it." This time, it's "responding to violent PCs with an unreasonably powerful NPC out of spite just reinforces a player vs DM mentality."

                                    See also "the illusion of choice isn't a brilliant trick, it just removes player agency" and "if one person's idea of fun doesn't match the rest of the group, remove that person, even if that person is you."

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    7
                                    • Z [email protected]

                                      Actually OP handled it pretty well, at least in the end . PC face consequences for their actions (a trial with the risk of being hung) and end up having to act to solve the problem. It's somehow created more game opportunities.

                                      samus12345@lemm.eeS This user is from outside of this forum
                                      samus12345@lemm.eeS This user is from outside of this forum
                                      [email protected]
                                      wrote on last edited by [email protected]
                                      #20

                                      It's a world of gods that intervene with mortals, so a GM is perfectly justified in-universe in smiting any players who get out of hand.

                                      C 1 Reply Last reply
                                      21
                                      • K [email protected]

                                        Was it fun for you to GM that game?

                                        T This user is from outside of this forum
                                        T This user is from outside of this forum
                                        [email protected]
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #21

                                        Short answer: yes.

                                        I was definitely looking to do a game that was basically as far from "railroad" as possible. And Dungeon World (the system in which we were playing) definitely encourages that sort of way of playing. (Though to be fair, we weren't doing Dungeon World quite how it was supposed to be played. There was player churn at the beginning of the campaign, so trying to ) It definitely ended up being more "comedy" than I anticipated, but the players loved it and I got some great stories out of that game. (Well, mostly the one story I just told, but yeah.)

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        21
                                        • samus12345@lemm.eeS [email protected]

                                          It's a world of gods that intervene with mortals, so a GM is perfectly justified in-universe in smiting any players who get out of hand.

                                          C This user is from outside of this forum
                                          C This user is from outside of this forum
                                          [email protected]
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #22

                                          But, sometimes it's more fun to let the players go. Especially if they keep the game and the table separated.

                                          Cross lines in game, but keep the table clean? Then keep going.

                                          Cross lines at the table, and the game ends until everyone has talked it through. And sometimes the game is just over.

                                          This story sounds like it stayed in game enough, but may have been scratching at the table. Enough to pull back and talk for a moment, but not enough to kill the game.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          23
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