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  3. 'No gay, no pay': The RuneScape community is absolutely mauling Jagex's new CEO over his decision to cancel new Pride Month events

'No gay, no pay': The RuneScape community is absolutely mauling Jagex's new CEO over his decision to cancel new Pride Month events

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  • L [email protected]

    I think it's that the world has changed into having fractured multiple cultures.

    In the 80s/90s being gay was considered by general society to be an insult. If you're under 25, the concept of something being negative being called "gay" as the standard insult just sounds made up.

    But people who are 40 years old may remember being in school, and you got a D on a quiz. Your buddy might say "You got a D? That's gay."

    Had nothing to do with actual homosexuality. It's just that's what society was. Being gay wasn't accepted, and it was cool and trendy to hate on gays to the point that it wasn't questioned if you called anything bad "gay".

    It's impossible to place an exact date on when the culture changed, because it likely changed at different times for different regions. I assume California was the first to change.

    I first noticed the shift in pop culture around 2003. There was a russian pop singer duo/band called tatu. Terrible music, but they kissed in their one hit wonder music video.

    The reactions I saw on MTV were people saying they were brave for being openly gay. Whereas if it would have happened in the 80s, I'm sure they'd have gotten death threats.

    And I STILL see people who don't accept gay people.

    So society is now fractured on what popular belief is. Now it's more like several circles, who all have different views. As opposed to one giant unified viewpoint, with those not conforming left on the outside in the underground.

    Because that's just one topic. There's other people who are ok with gay people, but not ok with trans. So thats another circle. Now imagine every single viewpoint which has a counter viewpoint.

    Whereas in the 80s, something like 92% of the vote went towards reagan, and everybody conformed to the preapproved normal viewpoints. We don't do that anymore. We each find our own meaning of normal.

    Now me personally, I don't find giving a nazi salute to be normal. But you'll still find herds of people defending musk. You'll also find people like me who say fuck musk, and fuck any self identifying nazi. So, another example of how different people are now in different circles.

    H This user is from outside of this forum
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    wrote last edited by
    #46

    I will not accept All the Things She Said slander

    1 Reply Last reply
    12
    • nutwrench@lemmy.mlN [email protected]

      Game companies need to focus on making good games. Take "pride" in that.

      Z This user is from outside of this forum
      Z This user is from outside of this forum
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      wrote last edited by
      #47

      For an mmo game that was released 2 decades ago and has a large established userbase, the main thing left to do to continue being a good game is organising events for continued engagement.

      1 Reply Last reply
      43
      • L [email protected]

        I think it's that the world has changed into having fractured multiple cultures.

        In the 80s/90s being gay was considered by general society to be an insult. If you're under 25, the concept of something being negative being called "gay" as the standard insult just sounds made up.

        But people who are 40 years old may remember being in school, and you got a D on a quiz. Your buddy might say "You got a D? That's gay."

        Had nothing to do with actual homosexuality. It's just that's what society was. Being gay wasn't accepted, and it was cool and trendy to hate on gays to the point that it wasn't questioned if you called anything bad "gay".

        It's impossible to place an exact date on when the culture changed, because it likely changed at different times for different regions. I assume California was the first to change.

        I first noticed the shift in pop culture around 2003. There was a russian pop singer duo/band called tatu. Terrible music, but they kissed in their one hit wonder music video.

        The reactions I saw on MTV were people saying they were brave for being openly gay. Whereas if it would have happened in the 80s, I'm sure they'd have gotten death threats.

        And I STILL see people who don't accept gay people.

        So society is now fractured on what popular belief is. Now it's more like several circles, who all have different views. As opposed to one giant unified viewpoint, with those not conforming left on the outside in the underground.

        Because that's just one topic. There's other people who are ok with gay people, but not ok with trans. So thats another circle. Now imagine every single viewpoint which has a counter viewpoint.

        Whereas in the 80s, something like 92% of the vote went towards reagan, and everybody conformed to the preapproved normal viewpoints. We don't do that anymore. We each find our own meaning of normal.

        Now me personally, I don't find giving a nazi salute to be normal. But you'll still find herds of people defending musk. You'll also find people like me who say fuck musk, and fuck any self identifying nazi. So, another example of how different people are now in different circles.

        S This user is from outside of this forum
        S This user is from outside of this forum
        [email protected]
        wrote last edited by
        #48

        tatu was a masterclass in queerbaiting

        1 Reply Last reply
        9
        • L [email protected]

          I think it's that the world has changed into having fractured multiple cultures.

          In the 80s/90s being gay was considered by general society to be an insult. If you're under 25, the concept of something being negative being called "gay" as the standard insult just sounds made up.

          But people who are 40 years old may remember being in school, and you got a D on a quiz. Your buddy might say "You got a D? That's gay."

          Had nothing to do with actual homosexuality. It's just that's what society was. Being gay wasn't accepted, and it was cool and trendy to hate on gays to the point that it wasn't questioned if you called anything bad "gay".

          It's impossible to place an exact date on when the culture changed, because it likely changed at different times for different regions. I assume California was the first to change.

          I first noticed the shift in pop culture around 2003. There was a russian pop singer duo/band called tatu. Terrible music, but they kissed in their one hit wonder music video.

          The reactions I saw on MTV were people saying they were brave for being openly gay. Whereas if it would have happened in the 80s, I'm sure they'd have gotten death threats.

          And I STILL see people who don't accept gay people.

          So society is now fractured on what popular belief is. Now it's more like several circles, who all have different views. As opposed to one giant unified viewpoint, with those not conforming left on the outside in the underground.

          Because that's just one topic. There's other people who are ok with gay people, but not ok with trans. So thats another circle. Now imagine every single viewpoint which has a counter viewpoint.

          Whereas in the 80s, something like 92% of the vote went towards reagan, and everybody conformed to the preapproved normal viewpoints. We don't do that anymore. We each find our own meaning of normal.

          Now me personally, I don't find giving a nazi salute to be normal. But you'll still find herds of people defending musk. You'll also find people like me who say fuck musk, and fuck any self identifying nazi. So, another example of how different people are now in different circles.

          D This user is from outside of this forum
          D This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote last edited by
          #49

          The meaning of the word Gay has shifted a lot in different directions over the decades.
          Way, way back "gay" had the meaning of joyful and fun, without any form of connotation to sexuality.
          Just as a addition to your text, please don't read it in any kind of negative meaning.

          1 Reply Last reply
          10
          • A [email protected]

            Please please please email support.

            [email protected]

            The mod team is not happy about this either, and was responsive to me. Enough voices can change things.

            If you haven’t play RuneScape - this has been a popular event for years. It’s always high quality fun. There have been stupid Fally protests and chuds but the events have always been really delightful.

            B This user is from outside of this forum
            B This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote last edited by
            #50

            Nice use of "gormless" 👏

            1 Reply Last reply
            16
            • tonytins@pawb.socialT [email protected]
              This post did not contain any content.
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              wrote last edited by [email protected]
              #51

              If I ran a business, I wouldn’t engage in any political events whatsoever. I don’t think businesses should, quite frankly. Be politically neutral. I don’t believe doing so “supports the status quo,” and thereby oppresses people “de facto,” that’s just pressure from activists to support them. You support gay people on your service by letting them play and putting down any instances of anti-gay rhetoric on your platform. Simple as that.

              F O L W Z 6 Replies Last reply
              9
              • chaoticentropy@feddit.ukC [email protected]

                Smite the Reich?

                S This user is from outside of this forum
                S This user is from outside of this forum
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                wrote last edited by
                #52

                Strike the Reich.

                anzo@programming.devA 1 Reply Last reply
                15
                • Z [email protected]

                  I'm not comfortable with companies using any kind of marketing tactics. Because 99 times out of a 100 it's speedy and underhanded.

                  But since they're going to be doing it anyways, doing it with pride, or disenfranchised demographics, at least normalizes their humanity. Which, at the end of the day, is the point of pride month et al.

                  R This user is from outside of this forum
                  R This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote last edited by
                  #53

                  Take it easy there, Chicken Little. "I'm uncomfortable with any kind of marketing" is so hyperbolic, it's almost parody. Putting the name of your business above the door? Thats marketing. Creating a website where customers can find and engage your services? That's marketing. A minority-owned business proudly owning that status? That's marketing. A friend telling you about the great meal they had the other day from a local restaurant? Believe it or not, that's marketing.

                  Marketing is not evil in and of itself. Unless humanity returns to a tribal social structure where you can count the number of non-related acquaintances you know on your fingers, it is a necessary component of operating a business. Of course, you're 100% right that there have been dubious applications of the principle, but again, you're throwing the baby out with the bath water, and it hampers the salient point that you're trying to make.

                  Z 1 Reply Last reply
                  4
                  • T [email protected]

                    If I ran a business, I wouldn’t engage in any political events whatsoever. I don’t think businesses should, quite frankly. Be politically neutral. I don’t believe doing so “supports the status quo,” and thereby oppresses people “de facto,” that’s just pressure from activists to support them. You support gay people on your service by letting them play and putting down any instances of anti-gay rhetoric on your platform. Simple as that.

                    F This user is from outside of this forum
                    F This user is from outside of this forum
                    [email protected]
                    wrote last edited by
                    #54

                    I think its easy and smart to make political decisions as a business, it simply has to come from a place of pure empathy for real people who actually exist.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    14
                    • tonytins@pawb.socialT [email protected]
                      This post did not contain any content.
                      F This user is from outside of this forum
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                      wrote last edited by
                      #55

                      Cancelling a pre-loaded pride event because you're scared of right wing nutcases being mean to your playerbase is the very definition of letting the terrorists win.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      155
                      • T [email protected]

                        If I ran a business, I wouldn’t engage in any political events whatsoever. I don’t think businesses should, quite frankly. Be politically neutral. I don’t believe doing so “supports the status quo,” and thereby oppresses people “de facto,” that’s just pressure from activists to support them. You support gay people on your service by letting them play and putting down any instances of anti-gay rhetoric on your platform. Simple as that.

                        O This user is from outside of this forum
                        O This user is from outside of this forum
                        [email protected]
                        wrote last edited by
                        #56

                        Calling pride month a political event is one of the most wildly bigoted takes I've ever heard.

                        nostradavid@programming.devN B 2 Replies Last reply
                        53
                        • R [email protected]

                          Take it easy there, Chicken Little. "I'm uncomfortable with any kind of marketing" is so hyperbolic, it's almost parody. Putting the name of your business above the door? Thats marketing. Creating a website where customers can find and engage your services? That's marketing. A minority-owned business proudly owning that status? That's marketing. A friend telling you about the great meal they had the other day from a local restaurant? Believe it or not, that's marketing.

                          Marketing is not evil in and of itself. Unless humanity returns to a tribal social structure where you can count the number of non-related acquaintances you know on your fingers, it is a necessary component of operating a business. Of course, you're 100% right that there have been dubious applications of the principle, but again, you're throwing the baby out with the bath water, and it hampers the salient point that you're trying to make.

                          Z This user is from outside of this forum
                          Z This user is from outside of this forum
                          [email protected]
                          wrote last edited by
                          #57

                          Sure, if you only take it at it's most extreme and dont use a little bit of critical thinking. I specifically referenced companies in a thread about large corporations manipulating social issues for their own gain. I also gave wiggle room with the 99 out of a 100 reference.

                          I think you also cast far too wide a net with your definitions of marketing, especially in the context of the conversation happening.

                          I'd check your own sky to be absolutely sure it's falling before throwing aspersions like that around. You may have a hysterical over-exaggeration of your own there.

                          R 1 Reply Last reply
                          1
                          • L [email protected]

                            I think it's that the world has changed into having fractured multiple cultures.

                            In the 80s/90s being gay was considered by general society to be an insult. If you're under 25, the concept of something being negative being called "gay" as the standard insult just sounds made up.

                            But people who are 40 years old may remember being in school, and you got a D on a quiz. Your buddy might say "You got a D? That's gay."

                            Had nothing to do with actual homosexuality. It's just that's what society was. Being gay wasn't accepted, and it was cool and trendy to hate on gays to the point that it wasn't questioned if you called anything bad "gay".

                            It's impossible to place an exact date on when the culture changed, because it likely changed at different times for different regions. I assume California was the first to change.

                            I first noticed the shift in pop culture around 2003. There was a russian pop singer duo/band called tatu. Terrible music, but they kissed in their one hit wonder music video.

                            The reactions I saw on MTV were people saying they were brave for being openly gay. Whereas if it would have happened in the 80s, I'm sure they'd have gotten death threats.

                            And I STILL see people who don't accept gay people.

                            So society is now fractured on what popular belief is. Now it's more like several circles, who all have different views. As opposed to one giant unified viewpoint, with those not conforming left on the outside in the underground.

                            Because that's just one topic. There's other people who are ok with gay people, but not ok with trans. So thats another circle. Now imagine every single viewpoint which has a counter viewpoint.

                            Whereas in the 80s, something like 92% of the vote went towards reagan, and everybody conformed to the preapproved normal viewpoints. We don't do that anymore. We each find our own meaning of normal.

                            Now me personally, I don't find giving a nazi salute to be normal. But you'll still find herds of people defending musk. You'll also find people like me who say fuck musk, and fuck any self identifying nazi. So, another example of how different people are now in different circles.

                            H This user is from outside of this forum
                            H This user is from outside of this forum
                            [email protected]
                            wrote last edited by [email protected]
                            #58

                            I assume California was the first to change

                            Nope, that designation goes to Massachusetts. First gay marriages occurred in 2004 and never had a prop 8 pass as late as 2008. California was a red state, redder than Florida is now, until very recently. California is a relatively recent leftward shift.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            11
                            • T [email protected]

                              If I ran a business, I wouldn’t engage in any political events whatsoever. I don’t think businesses should, quite frankly. Be politically neutral. I don’t believe doing so “supports the status quo,” and thereby oppresses people “de facto,” that’s just pressure from activists to support them. You support gay people on your service by letting them play and putting down any instances of anti-gay rhetoric on your platform. Simple as that.

                              L This user is from outside of this forum
                              L This user is from outside of this forum
                              [email protected]
                              wrote last edited by
                              #59

                              The fact that business engage in Christmas celebrations instead of, say, Ramadan, is itself a political decision - it places value on Christmas over the celebrations of other religions.

                              I'm not saying there shouldn't be Christmas events in games - quite contrary, I think having as many events from as many cultures would be a smart business decision and it would make a larger number of players happy. But the fact is it would be a double standard to be fine with that and not with Pride.

                              nostradavid@programming.devN 1 Reply Last reply
                              16
                              • tonytins@pawb.socialT [email protected]
                                This post did not contain any content.
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                                wrote last edited by
                                #60

                                Pride month celebrations were my go-to events in secret. My family doesn't really understand the niche appeal of the game, and state religious agents can't really "disguise themselves" ingame. But if Jagex is veering right, they might (like twitter) sell my information to security agencies the same way the Sauds/Turks did to Twitter a few years ago.

                                At least I get to wear my pride cape 24/7 until my membership runs out. In hindsight, It was a bad idea to assume that shooting stars/maple forestry/w301 hate chats were "isolated incidents". They're clearly part of an ongoing trend that has the CEO's approval. Oh well, there's always a countdown to good things. I should enjoy it while it lasts.

                                O A 2 Replies Last reply
                                45
                                • T [email protected]

                                  If I ran a business, I wouldn’t engage in any political events whatsoever. I don’t think businesses should, quite frankly. Be politically neutral. I don’t believe doing so “supports the status quo,” and thereby oppresses people “de facto,” that’s just pressure from activists to support them. You support gay people on your service by letting them play and putting down any instances of anti-gay rhetoric on your platform. Simple as that.

                                  W This user is from outside of this forum
                                  W This user is from outside of this forum
                                  [email protected]
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #61

                                  If I ran a business, I wouldn’t engage in any political events whatsoever.

                                  So you won't have holidays, period.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  9
                                  • O [email protected]

                                    Calling pride month a political event is one of the most wildly bigoted takes I've ever heard.

                                    nostradavid@programming.devN This user is from outside of this forum
                                    nostradavid@programming.devN This user is from outside of this forum
                                    [email protected]
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #62

                                    Pride is a political movement - or did they not fight for the rights of LGBT people? Flags are inherently political. Flying a flag signals allegiance and identity, which are political at their core.

                                    This makes pride month political.

                                    Being Lesbian/Gay/Bi/Transgender isn't political in and of itself, but movements are.

                                    C Y 2 Replies Last reply
                                    6
                                    • tonytins@pawb.socialT [email protected]
                                      This post did not contain any content.
                                      M This user is from outside of this forum
                                      M This user is from outside of this forum
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                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #63

                                      In the year of our Lord 2025 "news" is some goober cherry picking reddit and twitter posts to push his opinion.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      6
                                      • Z [email protected]

                                        I'm not comfortable with companies using any kind of marketing tactics. Because 99 times out of a 100 it's speedy and underhanded.

                                        But since they're going to be doing it anyways, doing it with pride, or disenfranchised demographics, at least normalizes their humanity. Which, at the end of the day, is the point of pride month et al.

                                        F This user is from outside of this forum
                                        F This user is from outside of this forum
                                        [email protected]
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #64

                                        using any kind of marketing tactics

                                        So there shouldn’t be a poster on a wooden pole for a new corner store? How about fancy signs? No happy hours either?

                                        Z 1 Reply Last reply
                                        1
                                        • L [email protected]

                                          The fact that business engage in Christmas celebrations instead of, say, Ramadan, is itself a political decision - it places value on Christmas over the celebrations of other religions.

                                          I'm not saying there shouldn't be Christmas events in games - quite contrary, I think having as many events from as many cultures would be a smart business decision and it would make a larger number of players happy. But the fact is it would be a double standard to be fine with that and not with Pride.

                                          nostradavid@programming.devN This user is from outside of this forum
                                          nostradavid@programming.devN This user is from outside of this forum
                                          [email protected]
                                          wrote last edited by [email protected]
                                          #65

                                          Christmas celebrations

                                          Christmas is more of a cultural celebration than a Christian one, and thus not political.

                                          I'm atheist, but I still celebrate Christmas, because it's a good excuse to gather friends and family, and have some fun together.

                                          C L 2 Replies Last reply
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