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  3. In September 2024, "Ty Coon" was replaced with "Moe Ghoul" in the official text file for GPL v2, without changing the version number or URL.

In September 2024, "Ty Coon" was replaced with "Moe Ghoul" in the official text file for GPL v2, without changing the version number or URL.

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  • procapra@lemmy.mlP [email protected]

    I grew up calling racoons "coons" in the region of the US I live in and it's still common to call them that nowadays. Words can have contextual meanings. If I hear the word "removed" and it turns out some guy is working on his car, I'm not going to be offended, and I shouldn't be, because it's not being used as a slur.

    All said and done, I don't particularly think it's a big deal to change it, but I do believe it's a highly performative gesture.

    apotheotic@beehaw.orgA This user is from outside of this forum
    apotheotic@beehaw.orgA This user is from outside of this forum
    [email protected]
    wrote last edited by
    #30

    So like, its not necessarily about offense. Some folks who have suffered abuse and aggression because of their minority status have visceral, trauma responses to certain things. When I hear the t-slur used, for example, it invokes a deep anxiety and panic. That doesn't mean that I think that anyone who says it is a transphobe (like the car guy in your example might be talking about his transmission or some silly thing like that) and I'm not going to rage and scream at him. But I'm not weird or wrong for asking him not to say it because it triggers me. This isn't a discussion about how we should cancel people for using words, its a discussion about how we can accommodate our fellow people.

    The OP shows some folks making a change that is so minor we shouldn't even be talking about it, so that they can be just a touch more likely not to affect someone negatively. Even if its performative, who cares, they did it and it affects nobody negatively.

    More concerning, I think, is the people jumping in this thread acting like this is woke cancel culture gone wild and we can't use normal words anymore.

    procapra@lemmy.mlP 1 Reply Last reply
    2
    • apotheotic@beehaw.orgA [email protected]

      So like, its not necessarily about offense. Some folks who have suffered abuse and aggression because of their minority status have visceral, trauma responses to certain things. When I hear the t-slur used, for example, it invokes a deep anxiety and panic. That doesn't mean that I think that anyone who says it is a transphobe (like the car guy in your example might be talking about his transmission or some silly thing like that) and I'm not going to rage and scream at him. But I'm not weird or wrong for asking him not to say it because it triggers me. This isn't a discussion about how we should cancel people for using words, its a discussion about how we can accommodate our fellow people.

      The OP shows some folks making a change that is so minor we shouldn't even be talking about it, so that they can be just a touch more likely not to affect someone negatively. Even if its performative, who cares, they did it and it affects nobody negatively.

      More concerning, I think, is the people jumping in this thread acting like this is woke cancel culture gone wild and we can't use normal words anymore.

      procapra@lemmy.mlP This user is from outside of this forum
      procapra@lemmy.mlP This user is from outside of this forum
      [email protected]
      wrote last edited by
      #31

      Bah, lemmy, please just let me devolve into a reactionary right winger! Stop making me learn things and have empathy and compassion for people!

      You're right. Fuck. It's just tiring being wrong. I grew up in a way that getting mad about something like this would just be replied with "tough shit". I guess old habits die hard. If changing it really makes that much of a difference for people, then yeah, great job gnu people.

      apotheotic@beehaw.orgA 1 Reply Last reply
      2
      • Z [email protected]

        Go home, you're drunk.

        D This user is from outside of this forum
        D This user is from outside of this forum
        [email protected]
        wrote last edited by
        #32

        I am drunk because I have the belief that everyone should be truly equal in front of the law and that rules about a thing/concept should be valid for all instances of that thing/concept?
        If you think so then, ok I am drunk and go home.
        Have a nice weekend!

        Z 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • R [email protected]

          Jesus christ people in the comments here are pathetic. This clearly has nothing to do with racial slurs or otaku culture. It's a play on the totally normal english word "tycoon" which just means "very rich businessman" and "mogul" which is a synonym for "magnate". You can look these up, every half-decent dictionary has these words. They probably changed it because "coon" is a slur for black people and they didn't want to cause any misunderstandings. If any of this offends you, please, please just step outside, touch some grass, take a deep breath, relax.

          D This user is from outside of this forum
          D This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote last edited by [email protected]
          #33

          You begin with "this clearly has nothing to do with racial slurs" and have near the end "they probably changed it because coon is a slur for black people".

          This is self contradictory, both statements can't be true at the same time.

          I am not offended by anything here, I couldn't care less about what they use as fun wordplay in there.

          Had a slow day and lots of free time at a train ride and just want to show that everything written can be misinterpreted and misunderstood. There is a bad meaning or derogatory slang for nearly every word out there.

          D I 2 Replies Last reply
          13
          • D [email protected]

            So instead of a racial slur they now make fun of Anime/Manga/Video Game fans

            "Moe (Japanese: 萌え; pronounced [mo.e] ⓘ), sometimes romanized as moé, is a Japanese word that refers to feelings of strong affection mainly towards characters in anime, manga, video games, and other media directed at the otaku market. Moe, however, has also gained usage to refer to feelings of affection towards any subject"

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_(slang)

            That in combination with Ghoul

            "In folklore, a ghoul (from Arabic: غول, ghūl) is a demon-like being or monstrous humanoid, often associated with graveyards and the consumption of human flesh"

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoul

            creates a not very nice combination.

            E This user is from outside of this forum
            E This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote last edited by
            #34

            Touch grass

            1 Reply Last reply
            8
            • procapra@lemmy.mlP [email protected]

              Bah, lemmy, please just let me devolve into a reactionary right winger! Stop making me learn things and have empathy and compassion for people!

              You're right. Fuck. It's just tiring being wrong. I grew up in a way that getting mad about something like this would just be replied with "tough shit". I guess old habits die hard. If changing it really makes that much of a difference for people, then yeah, great job gnu people.

              apotheotic@beehaw.orgA This user is from outside of this forum
              apotheotic@beehaw.orgA This user is from outside of this forum
              [email protected]
              wrote last edited by
              #35

              It really is hard to rewire when you've been brought up in a world that didn't care - and like, honestly good on you for even reflecting in this way. Thanks for learning things and having empathy and compassion 😜

              procapra@lemmy.mlP 1 Reply Last reply
              1
              • D [email protected]

                You begin with "this clearly has nothing to do with racial slurs" and have near the end "they probably changed it because coon is a slur for black people".

                This is self contradictory, both statements can't be true at the same time.

                I am not offended by anything here, I couldn't care less about what they use as fun wordplay in there.

                Had a slow day and lots of free time at a train ride and just want to show that everything written can be misinterpreted and misunderstood. There is a bad meaning or derogatory slang for nearly every word out there.

                D This user is from outside of this forum
                D This user is from outside of this forum
                [email protected]
                wrote last edited by
                #36

                derogatory slang

                What did you call me!?

                1 Reply Last reply
                5
                • D [email protected]

                  Not a bigger stretch then with the Ty Coon, that was obviously a play on the Tycoon.

                  It was not me who started to read bad things into word play, but by that rules is Moe Ghoul offensive too.

                  T This user is from outside of this forum
                  T This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote last edited by
                  #37

                  How many anime characters have been lynched by mobs calling them "moe"

                  B 1 Reply Last reply
                  5
                  • T [email protected]

                    How many anime characters have been lynched by mobs calling them "moe"

                    B This user is from outside of this forum
                    B This user is from outside of this forum
                    [email protected]
                    wrote last edited by
                    #38

                    Not the kind of choking that mob would do

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    1
                    • apotheotic@beehaw.orgA [email protected]

                      It really is hard to rewire when you've been brought up in a world that didn't care - and like, honestly good on you for even reflecting in this way. Thanks for learning things and having empathy and compassion 😜

                      procapra@lemmy.mlP This user is from outside of this forum
                      procapra@lemmy.mlP This user is from outside of this forum
                      [email protected]
                      wrote last edited by
                      #39

                      I just wanna be edgy and post images of skeletons riding motorcycles T-T

                      apotheotic@beehaw.orgA 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • procapra@lemmy.mlP [email protected]

                        I just wanna be edgy and post images of skeletons riding motorcycles T-T

                        apotheotic@beehaw.orgA This user is from outside of this forum
                        apotheotic@beehaw.orgA This user is from outside of this forum
                        [email protected]
                        wrote last edited by
                        #40

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        1
                        • D [email protected]

                          I am drunk because I have the belief that everyone should be truly equal in front of the law and that rules about a thing/concept should be valid for all instances of that thing/concept?
                          If you think so then, ok I am drunk and go home.
                          Have a nice weekend!

                          Z This user is from outside of this forum
                          Z This user is from outside of this forum
                          [email protected]
                          wrote last edited by
                          #41

                          You're drunk for thinking this is about you.

                          D 1 Reply Last reply
                          2
                          • Z [email protected]

                            You're drunk for thinking this is about you.

                            D This user is from outside of this forum
                            D This user is from outside of this forum
                            [email protected]
                            wrote last edited by [email protected]
                            #42

                            We talk about personal opinions, there is not much that is more personal then personal opinions. And you are making ad hominem claims (my soberness) so yes it is about me.

                            But it is not me how brought it to the personal level, that was you with calling me drunk.
                            Before that it was completely abstract and impersonal.

                            Z 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • D [email protected]

                              We talk about personal opinions, there is not much that is more personal then personal opinions. And you are making ad hominem claims (my soberness) so yes it is about me.

                              But it is not me how brought it to the personal level, that was you with calling me drunk.
                              Before that it was completely abstract and impersonal.

                              Z This user is from outside of this forum
                              Z This user is from outside of this forum
                              [email protected]
                              wrote last edited by
                              #43

                              It's only about you because you made it about you.

                              "Ghoul" is not a slur. You saying that seeing an unpleasant word next to a word that reminds you of anime is at all equivalent to a slur is frankly ghastly of you.

                              You'd almost have a leg to stand on if they changed it to "Captain Weeaboo" or something, but even then the comparison is a stretch. You're showing up at somebody's funeral to say "I scraped my knee, that's bad too! We're all equal as humans, so I deserve to speak".

                              Grow up.

                              D 1 Reply Last reply
                              1
                              • Z [email protected]

                                It's only about you because you made it about you.

                                "Ghoul" is not a slur. You saying that seeing an unpleasant word next to a word that reminds you of anime is at all equivalent to a slur is frankly ghastly of you.

                                You'd almost have a leg to stand on if they changed it to "Captain Weeaboo" or something, but even then the comparison is a stretch. You're showing up at somebody's funeral to say "I scraped my knee, that's bad too! We're all equal as humans, so I deserve to speak".

                                Grow up.

                                D This user is from outside of this forum
                                D This user is from outside of this forum
                                [email protected]
                                wrote last edited by [email protected]
                                #44

                                As I said in another post this was only a demonstration that people can read and interpret negative meaning in every combination of words if they really want to. I even gave the definition why "Ghoul" can be read in a negative way, but yeah it is easier to pull the conversation down to the ad hominem level like you did.

                                So in that regard was my little demonstration really successful, way more so then I intended.

                                To be honest, I don't care at all what they use as a funny wordplay, Moe Ghoul is even funnier than the older choice in my eyes. But my personal opinion about it is irrelevant, sorry that I have one.

                                I really think we should end the conversation here, because I already tried to end it with the nice weekend.

                                Z 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • D [email protected]

                                  You begin with "this clearly has nothing to do with racial slurs" and have near the end "they probably changed it because coon is a slur for black people".

                                  This is self contradictory, both statements can't be true at the same time.

                                  I am not offended by anything here, I couldn't care less about what they use as fun wordplay in there.

                                  Had a slow day and lots of free time at a train ride and just want to show that everything written can be misinterpreted and misunderstood. There is a bad meaning or derogatory slang for nearly every word out there.

                                  I This user is from outside of this forum
                                  I This user is from outside of this forum
                                  [email protected]
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #45

                                  It absolutely can be true, though slightly misworded.

                                  1. the initial usage had nothing to do with the derogatory term.

                                  2. upon realizing the relation to the derogatory term they adapted.

                                  D 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • D [email protected]

                                    So instead of a racial slur they now make fun of Anime/Manga/Video Game fans

                                    "Moe (Japanese: 萌え; pronounced [mo.e] ⓘ), sometimes romanized as moé, is a Japanese word that refers to feelings of strong affection mainly towards characters in anime, manga, video games, and other media directed at the otaku market. Moe, however, has also gained usage to refer to feelings of affection towards any subject"

                                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_(slang)

                                    That in combination with Ghoul

                                    "In folklore, a ghoul (from Arabic: غول, ghūl) is a demon-like being or monstrous humanoid, often associated with graveyards and the consumption of human flesh"

                                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoul

                                    creates a not very nice combination.

                                    I This user is from outside of this forum
                                    I This user is from outside of this forum
                                    [email protected]
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #46

                                    Everyday I become more secure in my belief that anime should be banned and all "anime fans" should be re-educated.

                                    D 1 Reply Last reply
                                    1
                                    • I [email protected]

                                      Everyday I become more secure in my belief that anime should be banned and all "anime fans" should be re-educated.

                                      D This user is from outside of this forum
                                      D This user is from outside of this forum
                                      [email protected]
                                      wrote last edited by [email protected]
                                      #47

                                      a) ad hominem
                                      and b) where did you take the information from that I am an anime fan?
                                      Only because I know the definition of the Japanese word "Moe"?
                                      A definition that is only one Wikipedia search away.

                                      Maybe you should get some education and logical thinking first before you send others into re-education.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • I [email protected]

                                        It absolutely can be true, though slightly misworded.

                                        1. the initial usage had nothing to do with the derogatory term.

                                        2. upon realizing the relation to the derogatory term they adapted.

                                        D This user is from outside of this forum
                                        D This user is from outside of this forum
                                        [email protected]
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #48

                                        Yes, if you change the complete context and make major changes to the sentences, then both can be true.
                                        I am sorry that I made that mistake, I beg for forgiveness

                                        I 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • D [email protected]

                                          Yes, if you change the complete context and make major changes to the sentences, then both can be true.
                                          I am sorry that I made that mistake, I beg for forgiveness

                                          I This user is from outside of this forum
                                          I This user is from outside of this forum
                                          [email protected]
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #49

                                          It's not changing the complete sentence, it's recognizing context clues and patterns of language.

                                          "This clearly has nothing to do with racial slurs or otaku culture" = the original intention wasn't about a racial slur and the change isn't about mocking Otaku culture. (This is supported when they go on to explain what the actual original intention would be)

                                          "They probably changed it because “coon” is a slur for black people and they didn’t want to cause any misunderstandings" = upon realizing the relation to a slur they didn't intend, they changed it.

                                          No need for forgiveness, or for passive aggressive condescension.

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