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  3. The signatures are still coming and it's already making an impact

The signatures are still coming and it's already making an impact

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Games
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  • S [email protected]

    The original article completely misrepresents the initiative:

    We appreciate the passion of our community; however, the decision to discontinue online services is multi-faceted, never taken lightly and must be an option for companies when an online experience is no longer commercially viable. We understand that it can be disappointing for players but, when it does happen, the industry ensures that players are given fair notice of the prospective changes in compliance with local consumer protection laws.

    Private servers are not always a viable alternative option for players as the protections we put in place to secure players’ data, remove illegal content, and combat unsafe community content would not exist and would leave rights holders liable. In addition, many titles are designed from the ground-up to be online-only; in effect, these proposals would curtail developer choice by making these video games prohibitively expensive to create.

    ...

    Stop Killing Games is not trying to force companies to provide private servers or anything like that, but leave the game in a playable state after shutting off servers. This can mean:

    • provide alternatives to any online-only content
    • make the game P2P if it requires multiplayer (no server needed, each client is a server)
    • gracefully degrading the client experience when there's no server

    Of course, releasing server code is an option.

    The expectation is:

    • if it's a subscription game, I get access for whatever period I pay for
    • if it's F2P, go nuts and break it whenever you want; there is the issue of I shame purchases, so that depends on how it's advertised
    • if it's a purchased game, it should still work after support ends

    That didn't restrict design decisions, it just places a requirement when the game is discontinued. If companies know this going in, they can plan ahead for their exit, just like we expect for mining companies (they're expected to fill in holes and make it look nice once they're done).

    I argue Stop Killing Games doesn't go far enough, and if it's pissing off the games industry as well, then that means it strikes a good balance.

    S This user is from outside of this forum
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    wrote last edited by
    #146

    Yeah... The abstract (sorry, will read article a bit later) is bunch of nonsense to me (in respect to what is written, no offense to you):

    • online experience commercially viable? The fuck they are talking about? Yeah, I know what is meant, but they would get fucking F in school for expressing thoughts in such a nonsensical way

    • protections against illegal content would not exist on private servers? Really? Like only your company's servers can run that? What, you write them in machine code directly? Or is it all done manually? Anyhow, just release source code and it will be up to community to find a way to make it run

    S 1 Reply Last reply
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    • M [email protected]

      What you're referring to is deterrence, and it doesn't apply to online gaming the way it does to theft of property. One cheater doesn't ruin the game for one other person, they ruin the game for dozens or hundreds of other players.

      Why are you comparing theft to game hacking out of nowhere? Did you accidentally reply to the wrong person?

      And the efficacy being so bad...

      Source?

      full access to the system itself.

      What do you mean by system in "full access to the system"? Too vague to even say anything about.

      And the guys writing the cheat software just have to put in the effort once to defeat the anti-cheat and then they sell it to people who install it like any other software. The cheaters who use the cheats have it easy.

      The potential guys that can write the cheat software and how quickly it can be developed is the part that matters. Much like when it's easy to use an exploit once it's already discovered. Someone still has to discover the exploit.

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      wrote last edited by
      #147

      Why are you comparing theft to game hacking out of nowhere?

      You made the comparison: "Much like every security system"

      Source?

      It's out there, my dude. It's a constant complaint in literally every competitive online game. If people are complaining about it, then it's not working well enough. This isn't an esoteric thought either. You ask anyone if cheating is a big issue in online gaming and anyone with knowledge about it will tell you it's a constant problem that's getting worse.

      What do you mean by system in "full access to the system"?

      If you own the hardware and have admin/root access to the OS. Then it's yours and you have "full access" to everything. And I do mean everything. You can modify the OS. You can read the values of protected parts of memory. And so on.

      If you don't understand what I mean by "full access to the system" in the context of anti-cheat running on your own hardware, then there's nothing I can say in a short comment to get you up to speed.

      Someone still has to discover the exploit.

      The cheat and anti-cheat battle is a constant cat and mouse game. The advantage is always with the cheaters because they outnumber the developers 100:1 at the least. Plus they have the will and determination to find ways around anti-cheats. In fact, building security against exploits is by far way harder than finding exploits.

      The reality is that client-side anti-cheat is a losing battle.

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      • S [email protected]

        They should be compelled to either make those cosmetics available for everyone or have some technical means to prove ownership (e.g. blockchain or cryptographically signed file). You can't lose stuff you bought just because the publisher shut down the servers.

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        wrote last edited by
        #148

        You can't lose stuff you bought just because the publisher shut down the servers.

        I mean that's exactly how it works right now. And depending on the exact wording of any laws passed as a result of this petition only the game itself or some or all micro transactions will have to be made available after official support ends.

        Public servers will either sell micro transactions themselves to finance servers or make all in game content available to everyone for free. I can see publishers having a problem with that.

        S 1 Reply Last reply
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        • R [email protected]

          Not to mention that studios like Larian have proven that it's entirely possible to make a blockbuster game without teams of 400 heads, changing direction and leadership every few years and laying off the people who made the product in the first place. They really seethed at that one, so many salty comments lol.

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          wrote last edited by
          #149

          Show me on the doll where that comment said Larian is an indie developer. Saying that they lack corporate interference does not equal claiming that they're an indie team.

          There's this neat thing between indie devs and AAA corporate studios called AA. Big enough to fund larger projects than indie devs while being small enough to usually still be private companies that aren't beholden to investors and therefore can take larger risks than the AAA devs are allowed, letting them make the games that they would want to play. CD Projekt RED and FromSoft both fit into this category as well, though all 3 companies are getting big enough to potentially start being considered AAA studios.

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          • E [email protected]

            Show me on the doll where that comment said Larian is an indie developer. Saying that they lack corporate interference does not equal claiming that they're an indie team.

            There's this neat thing between indie devs and AAA corporate studios called AA. Big enough to fund larger projects than indie devs while being small enough to usually still be private companies that aren't beholden to investors and therefore can take larger risks than the AAA devs are allowed, letting them make the games that they would want to play. CD Projekt RED and FromSoft both fit into this category as well, though all 3 companies are getting big enough to potentially start being considered AAA studios.

            R This user is from outside of this forum
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            wrote last edited by
            #150

            Jesus you white knights need to calm down and let them respond for themselves.

            E 1 Reply Last reply
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            • S [email protected]

              Developer choice, ha-ha, very funny. I am not familiar with the industry and still feel safe to bet most of them (edit: actual software developers making games) just want to get enough money for doing what they can do without too much stress/disgust and also most of them don't have a desire to see their work die just because some manager decided it is time to make some other games instead

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              wrote last edited by
              #151

              I bet they're really pissed off with ubisoft right now. They basically started this whole movement by being so egregious with The Crew. Less than a month before they shut the servers down the game was still on sale for the full price that it had launched with.

              Granted it was shut down because it was the most mediocre game ever made but that still isn't an excuse.

              N 1 Reply Last reply
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              • K [email protected]
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                wrote last edited by
                #152

                When you work hard to create a consumer economy, the first rule is, don't piss off the consumers!

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • K [email protected]
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                  jackbydev@programming.devJ This user is from outside of this forum
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                  wrote last edited by
                  #153

                  Uh, yeah, that's the point of all regulations. To make you not pick bad things.

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                  • R [email protected]

                    All games become subscription only in 3..2..

                    nexguy@lemmy.worldN This user is from outside of this forum
                    nexguy@lemmy.worldN This user is from outside of this forum
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                    wrote last edited by
                    #154

                    Subscribe to see how the countdown finishes!

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                    • thegreenwizard@lemmy.zipT [email protected]

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                      wrote last edited by
                      #155

                      From the mind of the one Free Man

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                      • R [email protected]

                        All games become subscription only in 3..2..

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                        wrote last edited by
                        #156

                        Let them try. Most game will utterly fail with that approach and I would love to see that.

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                        • S [email protected]

                          Let's be real, open sourcing it isn't "hardly any work". All the code has to be reviewed to make sure they can legally release it, no third-party proprietary stuff.

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                          wrote last edited by
                          #157

                          It's just one possible solution. They can just release a proprietary server application instead.

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                          • E [email protected]

                            I bet they're really pissed off with ubisoft right now. They basically started this whole movement by being so egregious with The Crew. Less than a month before they shut the servers down the game was still on sale for the full price that it had launched with.

                            Granted it was shut down because it was the most mediocre game ever made but that still isn't an excuse.

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                            wrote last edited by
                            #158

                            Tbh when I read of it, being an open world driving game where you can just drive around a very large area, I kind of wanted it. Not as a game, but simply for driving around. MarioKart is too happy for that. I just want to get lost in thoughts while driving.

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                            • N [email protected]

                              Tbh when I read of it, being an open world driving game where you can just drive around a very large area, I kind of wanted it. Not as a game, but simply for driving around. MarioKart is too happy for that. I just want to get lost in thoughts while driving.

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                              wrote last edited by
                              #159

                              Gran Turismo has similar stuff and is just better as a driving sim game.

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                              • K [email protected]
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                                wrote last edited by
                                #160

                                "... curtail developer choice" - This from a bunch of people for whom the term 'executive meddling' was created.

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                                • ulrich@feddit.orgU [email protected]

                                  I don't know why these companies think they can talk their way out of this. No one is buying your BS. Just STFU.

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                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #161

                                  It's to give talking points to the politicians they paid for.

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                                  • M [email protected]

                                    Anti-cheat is a necessary evil for competitive online games. No one wants to play a game against cheaters since they typically have an unfair advantage. If you can't combat cheating then you might as well not make the game since no one will want to play it. Fine by me since I don't care for such games but I could imagine people who like playing them might prefer to play against as few cheaters as possible. What are the alternatives?

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                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #162

                                    Battlefield and cod have cheaters running rampant in their official servers despite using anti cheats. They could employ a team to monitor cheating reported by players. But clearly they just don't want to expend resources to combat that.

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                                    • K [email protected]
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                                      thcdenton@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
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                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #163

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                                      • K [email protected]
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                                        moosetwin@lemmy.dbzer0.comM This user is from outside of this forum
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                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #164

                                        Cold Take has a counterargument video if anyone actually cares enough to take this seriously

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                                        • K [email protected]
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                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #165

                                          Copyright was invented so artists would be able to sell their art, and more art would be made.

                                          When copyright is protected on a product that's no longer sold, less art is made.

                                          When a copyright holder stops selling their art, copyright protections should immediately cease, and they should be responsible for copyright obligations - releasing the source code to the public. Use it or lose it!

                                          couldbealeotard@lemmy.worldC N 2 Replies Last reply
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