'No gay, no pay': The RuneScape community is absolutely mauling Jagex's new CEO over his decision to cancel new Pride Month events
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I think it's that the world has changed into having fractured multiple cultures.
In the 80s/90s being gay was considered by general society to be an insult. If you're under 25, the concept of something being negative being called "gay" as the standard insult just sounds made up.
But people who are 40 years old may remember being in school, and you got a D on a quiz. Your buddy might say "You got a D? That's gay."
Had nothing to do with actual homosexuality. It's just that's what society was. Being gay wasn't accepted, and it was cool and trendy to hate on gays to the point that it wasn't questioned if you called anything bad "gay".
It's impossible to place an exact date on when the culture changed, because it likely changed at different times for different regions. I assume California was the first to change.
I first noticed the shift in pop culture around 2003. There was a russian pop singer duo/band called tatu. Terrible music, but they kissed in their one hit wonder music video.
The reactions I saw on MTV were people saying they were brave for being openly gay. Whereas if it would have happened in the 80s, I'm sure they'd have gotten death threats.
And I STILL see people who don't accept gay people.
So society is now fractured on what popular belief is. Now it's more like several circles, who all have different views. As opposed to one giant unified viewpoint, with those not conforming left on the outside in the underground.
Because that's just one topic. There's other people who are ok with gay people, but not ok with trans. So thats another circle. Now imagine every single viewpoint which has a counter viewpoint.
Whereas in the 80s, something like 92% of the vote went towards reagan, and everybody conformed to the preapproved normal viewpoints. We don't do that anymore. We each find our own meaning of normal.
Now me personally, I don't find giving a nazi salute to be normal. But you'll still find herds of people defending musk. You'll also find people like me who say fuck musk, and fuck any self identifying nazi. So, another example of how different people are now in different circles.
Yeah, 43 here, went to school with a kid who's parents must have been from the 19th century, and named him Gaylord. Holy shit, I left that school after middle school, but I would honestly not be surprised if he killed himself.
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No, it's definitely political. So was the Civil Rights movement in the US. So was Womens' suffrage.
Pushing for change is political, even if it's nearly universally agreed that the particular change is necessary and good. I agree with LGBT rights and as far as I care, they can have a month long pride if they want, it doesn't in any way chafe my willy. However, I agree with the person you replied to. As a business, ANY stance on ANY political cause risks alienation of some part of your customer base. Doing a 180 on your stance like Jagex did is of course the worst thing you can do, because then you alienate the people who agreed with you, but the others will still remember when you disagreed with them. Once they decided to do pride, they should've fucking stuck to it, at least for the year where they already had events scheduled!
If I ran a public-facing business at all, it would have literally no political allegiance or opinions. No stance on LGBT rights, no political donations (not really a huge thing in my country anyway), etc. Just do my thing, provide a great service, make sure my employees and customers are happy, and... The LGBT folks can do whatever they want, I'm just not voicing support for them as a business. Even if I as a person root for equal rights, I just don't want to take a stance as a business owner. Donations to charities, including LGBT charities, are fine - I just don't want it to be particularly public. But then I just prefer privacy in these kinds of matters.
Pride movement is as political as Christmas is political. There will be people that make it a political issue, but that doesn't mean it is actually political. A company that celebrates a holiday that big part of the population celebrate is not siding with a political party or even with a religion. The rights for any minorities in a government or a state is political, but pride is a celebration and as such it is not political. A state making a religion official and forced/encouraged is political. Celebrating Christmas is not political. And celebrating Christmas as a company doesn't mean they alienate customers or employees that don't actually follow the religious side of the holiday.
Don't get sucked into the idea that a company cannot show support for minorities or make events depending on the celebrations socially occurring because you need to be neutral. That's not neutrality, that's self censorship.
To take it to the extremes, are we expecting companies to say they are not against slavery but also not in favor, because it is political? Child labour is bad, but I don't want to support any side because it is too political. Terrorism attacks? Well we don't have a stance against or for them, it's just too political.
There's a big difference between siding with one party or another and not showing a stance into what should be universal human rights. Are universal human rights political? Well kinda, but we shouldn't support, or allow any company that is afraid of supporting human rights because it might alienate some customers... Pride and lgbtq rights might not be on the same level as slavery, terrorism and child labor but hell who someone spends their life with is a human right and has nothing to do with politics.
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Its a tradeoff, we know they only do things for the bottom line but having pridr celebrations did reinforce exactly what the pride movement wanted to push. My work isnt that bad tbh they have a committee that runs talks and discussions on equity and exclusion and the likes. The committee likely doesnt cost much, but they get to champion it and the people in that community feel welcomed and it does help breakdown barriers.
My work turns pride month/mens mental health month into (we want to sell 3500 cars this month and also donate a few dollars to make a wish)
Better than nothing I guess. But still kinda shitty.
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Hell yeah
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Pride is a political movement - or did they not fight for the rights of LGBT people? Flags are inherently political. Flying a flag signals allegiance and identity, which are political at their core.
This makes pride month political.
Being Lesbian/Gay/Bi/Transgender isn't political in and of itself, but movements are.
When being from the lgbtq community means that you are persecuted, punished and your life is threatened, doesn't it mean it is political? why do you say it is not political? Or is that about fighting for survival? Is fighting for survival political? Does it even matter? You don't specify it in your comment, are you supporting the other comments that because it is political companies should stay away from it?
When laws and states and governments try to push too far to limit things such as gender identities the lives of many become political as they are threatened by the laws, states, and governments. And yet, the rights and survival of people in peace is not truly political. That's just the excuse used to try and censor the discussion of such topics.
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I'm not sure it's really the same kind of thing. I'd argue anyone who is genuinely interested in an MMO would like a different game better. RuneScape has more in common with an AOL chatroom or text based game than a moden MMO even by the standards for an MMO way back when.
Other games wish they were WOW and WOW is a bad game imo.
MMORPGs are shit grind fests change my mind. The reward is basically what survival games feel like.
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MMORPGs are shit grind fests change my mind. The reward is basically what survival games feel like.
A lot of them are. You're not wrong. There are a few gems, but I feel like technical limitations made a lot of early ones pure grindfests. Never my favorite genre. I did like Ragnarok Online back in the day. Total grindfests. Lol.
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Sure, if you only take it at it's most extreme and dont use a little bit of critical thinking. I specifically referenced companies in a thread about large corporations manipulating social issues for their own gain. I also gave wiggle room with the 99 out of a 100 reference.
I think you also cast far too wide a net with your definitions of marketing, especially in the context of the conversation happening.
I'd check your own sky to be absolutely sure it's falling before throwing aspersions like that around. You may have a hysterical over-exaggeration of your own there.
Dis u?
I'm not comfortable with companies using any kind of marketing tactics.
Now, I felt like I was fairly gentle in pointing out the absurd nature of that statement. I even readily acknowledged what I assumed to be your intent, i.e. there are absolutely marketing tactics which go beyond the pale. But, as I, and others, have pointed out, you're the one operating on your own personal definition of marketing here, which is in contradiction to what that concept actually is. Any intro to business class will tell you that marketing is, essentially, ANYTHING an entity does to inform people of its services. It's an enormous umbrella, which includes tactics both odious and innocuous. It is as readily applicable to the gal who posts on Facebook that she'll do your hair for $20 as it is Facebook selling that information to a third party so she can be served targeted salon equipment advertisements.
All I'm saying is, if you say "all marketing is bad", you need to be prepared for people to call you out on the hyperbole of that statement. Therefore, you might consider arguing the point you actually intend to make (which is good and I agree with you about!), instead of leading with a statement which you don't actually believe.
Calling you Chicken Little was facetious, but meant to be a gentle dig at the hyperbole. Still, I shouldn't have said it, and I apologize.
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I'm not sure it's really the same kind of thing. I'd argue anyone who is genuinely interested in an MMO would like a different game better. RuneScape has more in common with an AOL chatroom or text based game than a moden MMO even by the standards for an MMO way back when.
Other games wish they were WOW and WOW is a bad game imo.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Some people still have strong possitive feelings for AIM.
Runescape outlived WoW and all the rest because people preferred it.
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Strike the Reich.
Taste the rich, om nom nom.
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Some people still have strong possitive feelings for AIM.
Runescape outlived WoW and all the rest because people preferred it.
In 2009 RuneScape had ~200,000 daily players. WoW had ~5.5 million.
Current estimates are RuneScape at ~150,000 and I'm being generous. WoW is at ~1.1 million.
I don't like WoW either, but it's the king for a reason.
That reason is they paid addiction specialists to tune drop rates and combat to make children addicted to their product.
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In 2009 RuneScape had ~200,000 daily players. WoW had ~5.5 million.
Current estimates are RuneScape at ~150,000 and I'm being generous. WoW is at ~1.1 million.
I don't like WoW either, but it's the king for a reason.
That reason is they paid addiction specialists to tune drop rates and combat to make children addicted to their product.
I genuinenely did not know that WoW was still running, tbh.
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This post did not contain any content.wrote last edited by [email protected]
rs has been declining quite a while, especially since they have significant periods of content droughts. getting gutted by PE firms isnt helping it.
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Would a commercial with Jesus on the cross saying he is thirsty and having a Roman Soldier pass him an ice cold Coca Cola be better?
I tried it using Sora, but "This content can't be shown for now. We're still developing how we evaluate which content conflicts with our policies. Think we got it wrong? Let us know."
This was the prompt:
Give me a Coca Cola commercial where Jesus has been nailed to a cross, and says "I'm thirsty", after which a Roman Soldier passes him an ice cold Coca Cola.
I tried replacing "Jesus" with a man, but no dice
it would be PONTIUS passing him the soda.
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Pride is political now?
Always has been
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Pride movement is as political as Christmas is political. There will be people that make it a political issue, but that doesn't mean it is actually political. A company that celebrates a holiday that big part of the population celebrate is not siding with a political party or even with a religion. The rights for any minorities in a government or a state is political, but pride is a celebration and as such it is not political. A state making a religion official and forced/encouraged is political. Celebrating Christmas is not political. And celebrating Christmas as a company doesn't mean they alienate customers or employees that don't actually follow the religious side of the holiday.
Don't get sucked into the idea that a company cannot show support for minorities or make events depending on the celebrations socially occurring because you need to be neutral. That's not neutrality, that's self censorship.
To take it to the extremes, are we expecting companies to say they are not against slavery but also not in favor, because it is political? Child labour is bad, but I don't want to support any side because it is too political. Terrorism attacks? Well we don't have a stance against or for them, it's just too political.
There's a big difference between siding with one party or another and not showing a stance into what should be universal human rights. Are universal human rights political? Well kinda, but we shouldn't support, or allow any company that is afraid of supporting human rights because it might alienate some customers... Pride and lgbtq rights might not be on the same level as slavery, terrorism and child labor but hell who someone spends their life with is a human right and has nothing to do with politics.
You have different definitions of "political"
In my country at least, there are differences of opinion about whether queer people can exist in public, use the bathroom, etc., and the people in power are endangering everyone. So pride is very much political.
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I genuinenely did not know that WoW was still running, tbh.
Legend says it has to be cast into Mount SexualAssault from which it came.
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Yeah, 43 here, went to school with a kid who's parents must have been from the 19th century, and named him Gaylord. Holy shit, I left that school after middle school, but I would honestly not be surprised if he killed himself.
Holy shit......being named "Gaylord" in the 80s/90s as a kid?
Fuck.
R.I.P. Gaylord.
May your bullying been short and merciful.
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Dis u?
I'm not comfortable with companies using any kind of marketing tactics.
Now, I felt like I was fairly gentle in pointing out the absurd nature of that statement. I even readily acknowledged what I assumed to be your intent, i.e. there are absolutely marketing tactics which go beyond the pale. But, as I, and others, have pointed out, you're the one operating on your own personal definition of marketing here, which is in contradiction to what that concept actually is. Any intro to business class will tell you that marketing is, essentially, ANYTHING an entity does to inform people of its services. It's an enormous umbrella, which includes tactics both odious and innocuous. It is as readily applicable to the gal who posts on Facebook that she'll do your hair for $20 as it is Facebook selling that information to a third party so she can be served targeted salon equipment advertisements.
All I'm saying is, if you say "all marketing is bad", you need to be prepared for people to call you out on the hyperbole of that statement. Therefore, you might consider arguing the point you actually intend to make (which is good and I agree with you about!), instead of leading with a statement which you don't actually believe.
Calling you Chicken Little was facetious, but meant to be a gentle dig at the hyperbole. Still, I shouldn't have said it, and I apologize.
Seems a little overboard for some kind of friendly conversation, especially when it had nothing to do with my general point. I was just stating that I wasn't comfortable with marketing in general. The implication being from large corporations.
As I've never taken an intro to business course, as I'm not interested in that aspect of hyper-capitalism that entails, I just go on the general context of the thread and general sentiment. Not a super-literal definition given in your community college.
The hyperbole seems to be all yours, you've taken a statement I used to lead into the general topic of my comment and somehow built an entire personality out of to assign to me.
I'm not comfortable with marketing. That is my personal opinion. I know lots of other people have other opinions. Some people are neutral, they don't give a shit. Others seem to think of it as completely and utterly necessary in every degree of society. They're allowed that, I have no power nor will to take that from them.
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A lot of them are. You're not wrong. There are a few gems, but I feel like technical limitations made a lot of early ones pure grindfests. Never my favorite genre. I did like Ragnarok Online back in the day. Total grindfests. Lol.
It was joyful and the players made it amazing as well. You weren't alone was the best part in some games.
