"I live here now"
-
What should happen to the Israelis if palistine takes their land back?
The finders keepers rule of colonizers. We stole it, but you wanting it returned is stealing it too! /s
It's not up to you or me, or the israeli colonizers as to what happens to Palestine. That should be decided by the palestinian people themselves.
-
the Russian state’s approach has basically been in every single way wrong.
This is the nut of it and the thing a lot of folks seem to struggle with. The NATO fuckery in Ukraine notwithstanding, Putin thought he could raise the stakes in Ukraine through a full scale invasion. He was absolutely wrong to do so. He fucked things harder than a thousand pogroms in the Donbas could have done.
The Russian ethnic minority and it’s treatment is a domestic issue.
Okay, no. That's not how internationalism works. You don't look across the border at an atrocity, shrug, and say "Not my problem."
The Russian response could have been to open their own borders, build up relief on their end, and give Donbas residents a safe place to run and hide. But "sorry fuckers, should have been a Russian born in Russia" is as meat-headed as the folks who wanted to charge into Ukraine guns blazing.
wrote last edited by [email protected]He fucked things harder
Last when i checked Russia is winning the war, its economy is rising, its economical bloc is gaining traction while the US hegemony crumbles and US vassals are in complete shambles (a lot of which like the liberation of Sahel is directly possible only because NATO is currently being uncovered as paper tiger).
I would say it's very distant from "fucking up".
than a thousand pogroms in the Donbas could have done.
What a nice thing to say, pogrom enjoyer. Donbass is one of the genocides we will never know how bad they would get because they were stopped in time. And if it wasn't, you probably wouldn't even cry the crocodile tears, beacuse what's a pogrom or hundred, right?
-
Ok so I actually have a degree in Poli Sci and another degree in Econ, I have read quite a lot of theory, often got into arguments with my NeoLiberal professors over things like the IMF, WorldBank, how to evaluate systemic risk in financial markets, the idea of bailing out Wall Street during the GFC instead of jailing them all as corrupt, as Iceland did, once got a bad mark on a paper about conflict goods because my PoliSci prof simply refused to acknowledge that US Army troops were guarding opium farms in Afghanistan, independently sought out and studied modern Marxist econonmists outside of the scope of course work, etc etc.
I want you to explain, in a couple sentences, or paragraphs if you need to... how the situation I described above either is not settler colonialism, or is a wildly innacurate mischaracterization of the situation, or some mix of both.
Not just yell 'read theory!' at me and give me an author name.
I do not need the entire concept of settler colonialism explained to me. I am familiar with it.
If you've read and understood Fanon, you should be able to... you know, make that argument.
Succinctly.
In your own words.
Otherwise you're just a pretentious hipster, arrogantly name dropping authors and scoffing.
wrote last edited by [email protected]You're trying to start an appeal to authority here while clearly being full of shit
it's giving me third party embarrassment. -
All that says, is that you are this close to admitting that Ukraine has been an occupied territory for centuries. Except you are using that fact as a justification for continued occupation, and not a reason for Russia to stop their colonial objectives.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I didn't say any of that shit.
What I did was state a couple objective historical facts and then ask a question, one that none of the downvoters and none of the people who have replied to me (including you) have anything resembling an answer to.
All y'all do when you get confronted by something you can't answer is downvote, fall back on lazy talking points, block, and ignore it. This makes your criticism very hard to take seriously, you just parrot the news, with no investigation or critical thought.
Not all of modern Ukraine was part of Russia before the USSR, btw. When I said "it" I was referring specifically to the Donbass. Donbass was given to Ukraine, perhaps in the hope that the Russian population would influence the politics of the Ukrainian SSR in a way that was more cooperative with the rest of the Union. This is simply a fact, and astute readers will note that it's mostly tangential to my actual question, except in that establishes that many Russians have lived there historically.
-
You digress
Edit: youre like 5 sentences away from admitting harm reduction is the only way to sort these problems and im here for it.
Absolutely, and the destruction of the apartheid state is the best way to reduce harm.
-
Absolutely, and the destruction of the apartheid state is the best way to reduce harm.
What does "destruction of apartheid state" look like?
-
I forgot about tinysnek. Is there a way to see his comics outside of Instagram/Twitter?
-
What does "destruction of apartheid state" look like?
Look at South Africa, for an example.
-
Look at South Africa, for an example.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I wont pretend to know much about South Africa or Palestine/Israel but my understanding is Palistine/Isreal are separate entities so if you were going to use civil disobedience to overcome the conflict you would have to convince the people of isreal.
Which, sounds fine.
-
He fucked things harder
Last when i checked Russia is winning the war, its economy is rising, its economical bloc is gaining traction while the US hegemony crumbles and US vassals are in complete shambles (a lot of which like the liberation of Sahel is directly possible only because NATO is currently being uncovered as paper tiger).
I would say it's very distant from "fucking up".
than a thousand pogroms in the Donbas could have done.
What a nice thing to say, pogrom enjoyer. Donbass is one of the genocides we will never know how bad they would get because they were stopped in time. And if it wasn't, you probably wouldn't even cry the crocodile tears, beacuse what's a pogrom or hundred, right?
Last when i checked Russia is winning the war, its economy is rising, its economical bloc is gaining traction while the US hegemony crumbles and US vassals are in complete shambles
Might want to update your priors. Russia's claiming a pyrrhic victory on the ground while losing irreplaceable assets and allies. US hegemony has been crumbling since the '00s, that's nothing new. The vassals are, if anything, more militant and expansionist than ever (glances towards Israel)
Donbass is one of the genocides we will never know how bad they would get because they were stopped in time.
How can you count the dead in this war well over the million mark and say that with a straight face?
-
Last when i checked Russia is winning the war, its economy is rising, its economical bloc is gaining traction while the US hegemony crumbles and US vassals are in complete shambles
Might want to update your priors. Russia's claiming a pyrrhic victory on the ground while losing irreplaceable assets and allies. US hegemony has been crumbling since the '00s, that's nothing new. The vassals are, if anything, more militant and expansionist than ever (glances towards Israel)
Donbass is one of the genocides we will never know how bad they would get because they were stopped in time.
How can you count the dead in this war well over the million mark and say that with a straight face?
The World Bank just reclassified Russia as a high income country https://blogs.worldbank.org/en/opendata/world-bank-country-classifications-by-income-level-for-2024-2025
Meanwhile, the IMF forecasts that Russian economy is set to grow faster than all the western economies https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/17/russia-forecast-to-grow-faster-than-advanced-economies-in-2024-imf.html
I'm really not sure what it is you think Russia lost access to exactly given that they're part of BRICS which is a bigger economic bloc than the G7 at this point.
-
In simple words, in colonialism a country invades another country in the aim of taking its resources or exploiting and descriminating against its population or in the case of settler colonialism wiping them out and replacing them, what Russia has done is use military power to invade an area not controlled by it to change their ruling class, they want to make the population have a Russian citizenship and for the land to be under the map of Russia.
A citizen of an eastern Oblast of Ukraine after Russia takes over will still be the same as he was earlier, just now with a Russian citizenship. Just like how people in Crimea were Ukrainian citizens before 2014, but after they became Russian citizens, and Crimea is treated as a part of Russia (although not recognized by a lot of countries).
A Palestinian citizen after the colonialism of Palestine now lives either abroad or in a concentration camp or is dead.
Completely different situations
wrote last edited by [email protected]In simple words, in colonialism a country invades another country
Ok, Russia has done that.
in the aim of taking its resources or exploiting and descriminating against its population
Ok, this has happened as well, unless you somehow think Russia... isn't going to use the territory it has captured... not like Crimea is a super strategically important port location or anything ... not like any agriculture or mining happens in eastern Ukraine...
...discrimination against the local population has been rampant with warcrimes galore against civillians, from remote arty/missile strikes to naval bombardment to executing civillians to kidnapping Ukranian children and sending them to 'you are Russian now' foster family placement programs...
but uh sure. no mass concentration camps. just mass graves and mass obliteration of civillian areas. that you'll be shot if you try to flee westward from. so you better act like you're russian now.
nope no forced cultural assimilation here, no sir.
what Russia has done is use military power to invade an area not controlled by it to change their ruling class
Ah, so you would support the US/Coalition invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan with that logic.
they want to make the population have a Russian citizenship and for the land to be under the map of Russia.
Yes that's just general conquest.
A citizen of an eastern Oblast of Ukraine after Russia takes over will still be the same as he was earlier, just now with a Russian citizenship.
This was already the case, in large numbers, before the invasion.
Just like how people in Crimea were Ukrainian citizens before 2014, but after they became Russian citizens, and Crimea is treated as a part of Russia (although not recognized by a lot of countries).
Yes, just like when Rome conquered somewhere, they placed either literally their own, or friendly but subserservient local puppets at the top of the society, declared the whole territory part of Rome.
You are also leaving out the part when Russia has hassively encouraged settlement of Russian nationals into Crimea and other eastern Oblasts.
You know, kinda like with Israel and the West Bank.
Settlers. Moving into a colonized area. Area gained by force of arms.
Settler colonialism.
... you can do a settler colonialism either with or without enslaving or forcibly assimilating the mainstay local population.
In America, we just killed most of them. Did a bit of the kidnapping and forced culturalization of children too.
-
No they don't lmao. You're literally crying about Russia supporting Donbas secession.
They're the ones resisting Ukraine, they've been doing it since 2014.
@Grapho Tankie has a hard time forming an argument. Well, at least we know it's not a Russian troll now.
-
I wont pretend to know much about South Africa or Palestine/Israel but my understanding is Palistine/Isreal are separate entities so if you were going to use civil disobedience to overcome the conflict you would have to convince the people of isreal.
Which, sounds fine.
wrote last edited by [email protected]That's like saying that the only way to defeat Nazi Germany is to convince the Germans through civil disobedience, because "Germany and France are separate entities."
-
That's like saying that the only way to defeat Nazi Germany is to convince the Germans through civil disobedience, because "Germany and France are separate entities."
You're the one who said south africa
-
In simple words, in colonialism a country invades another country
Ok, Russia has done that.
in the aim of taking its resources or exploiting and descriminating against its population
Ok, this has happened as well, unless you somehow think Russia... isn't going to use the territory it has captured... not like Crimea is a super strategically important port location or anything ... not like any agriculture or mining happens in eastern Ukraine...
...discrimination against the local population has been rampant with warcrimes galore against civillians, from remote arty/missile strikes to naval bombardment to executing civillians to kidnapping Ukranian children and sending them to 'you are Russian now' foster family placement programs...
but uh sure. no mass concentration camps. just mass graves and mass obliteration of civillian areas. that you'll be shot if you try to flee westward from. so you better act like you're russian now.
nope no forced cultural assimilation here, no sir.
what Russia has done is use military power to invade an area not controlled by it to change their ruling class
Ah, so you would support the US/Coalition invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan with that logic.
they want to make the population have a Russian citizenship and for the land to be under the map of Russia.
Yes that's just general conquest.
A citizen of an eastern Oblast of Ukraine after Russia takes over will still be the same as he was earlier, just now with a Russian citizenship.
This was already the case, in large numbers, before the invasion.
Just like how people in Crimea were Ukrainian citizens before 2014, but after they became Russian citizens, and Crimea is treated as a part of Russia (although not recognized by a lot of countries).
Yes, just like when Rome conquered somewhere, they placed either literally their own, or friendly but subserservient local puppets at the top of the society, declared the whole territory part of Rome.
You are also leaving out the part when Russia has hassively encouraged settlement of Russian nationals into Crimea and other eastern Oblasts.
You know, kinda like with Israel and the West Bank.
Settlers. Moving into a colonized area. Area gained by force of arms.
Settler colonialism.
... you can do a settler colonialism either with or without enslaving or forcibly assimilating the mainstay local population.
In America, we just killed most of them. Did a bit of the kidnapping and forced culturalization of children too.
Ok, Russia
Yeah Russia is ok
go play with your balls I don't care about arguing with you there's no point you're a westerner
-
In simple words, in colonialism a country invades another country
Ok, Russia has done that.
in the aim of taking its resources or exploiting and descriminating against its population
Ok, this has happened as well, unless you somehow think Russia... isn't going to use the territory it has captured... not like Crimea is a super strategically important port location or anything ... not like any agriculture or mining happens in eastern Ukraine...
...discrimination against the local population has been rampant with warcrimes galore against civillians, from remote arty/missile strikes to naval bombardment to executing civillians to kidnapping Ukranian children and sending them to 'you are Russian now' foster family placement programs...
but uh sure. no mass concentration camps. just mass graves and mass obliteration of civillian areas. that you'll be shot if you try to flee westward from. so you better act like you're russian now.
nope no forced cultural assimilation here, no sir.
what Russia has done is use military power to invade an area not controlled by it to change their ruling class
Ah, so you would support the US/Coalition invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan with that logic.
they want to make the population have a Russian citizenship and for the land to be under the map of Russia.
Yes that's just general conquest.
A citizen of an eastern Oblast of Ukraine after Russia takes over will still be the same as he was earlier, just now with a Russian citizenship.
This was already the case, in large numbers, before the invasion.
Just like how people in Crimea were Ukrainian citizens before 2014, but after they became Russian citizens, and Crimea is treated as a part of Russia (although not recognized by a lot of countries).
Yes, just like when Rome conquered somewhere, they placed either literally their own, or friendly but subserservient local puppets at the top of the society, declared the whole territory part of Rome.
You are also leaving out the part when Russia has hassively encouraged settlement of Russian nationals into Crimea and other eastern Oblasts.
You know, kinda like with Israel and the West Bank.
Settlers. Moving into a colonized area. Area gained by force of arms.
Settler colonialism.
... you can do a settler colonialism either with or without enslaving or forcibly assimilating the mainstay local population.
In America, we just killed most of them. Did a bit of the kidnapping and forced culturalization of children too.
》Ah, so you would support the US/Coalition invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan with that logic.
do you think these wars were of a settler colonialist character?
-
You provided a second claim from somebody else. That's not a source. Sources include verifiable facts.
If you actually bothered to read the book at least a little bit, you'd have read he actually sources a fair bit.
He's also providing an eyewitness account from his time there. I'm not sure how much more primary you want to get.
-
Exactly, the Nazis in the Ukrainian government are sending Ukranians into meat grinders for the profits of the U.S. empire
I love how all the chuds from nazi adjacent instances come out of the woodwork to downvote anybody pointing out the basic facts of the situation.
-
Settler colonialism a form of imperialism (theft of land, labor and natural resources of a weaker country by a stronger one), where the stronger country sets up a military garrison, and evicts or enslaves the local population. This is border conflict to halt the ever-eastward march of NATO.
The accusations of "russifying the ukrainian language" is pure projection; its the banderites who (with NATO help, Obama bragged about this one) couped Ukraine in 2014 (and who were killing thousands of civilians in the donbass) that have been attempting to make spoken russian illegal in the country. They've also been reviving nazi collaborators and building monuments to them as fast as they can.
It was the Bolsheviks (Stalin especially) who strongly supported the creation of a Ukrainian state, as it had a distinct national, lingual, and cultural character, while the western nations were opposed to Ukrainian sovereignty (The fascist dictatorhips of the 30s were essentially at war with all slavic peoples). Modern Russia wants to preserve Ukraine as a buffer state (as it was before 2014). There are many ppl more knowledgeable on lemmygrad and hexbear, that could give you a long background on this conflict.
Modern imperialism (usually) takes a different form from classical colonialism, but even with that definition, Russia can't be called imperialist as it fits none of the traits.
The Russians have occupied foreign land, commited vast numbers of warcrimes by indiscriminately blowing the shit out of civillian areas at a scale not seen in the region since WW2, and while perhaps not literally enslaving the remaining Ukranian population, they are forcibly destroying the language culture and identity of Ukranians in occupied territories, and they are settling Russian nationals in occupied areas.
That's settler colonialism.
Move into an area, claim control over it, kill those who resist strongly, kill a bunch of civillians in the take over process, culturally erase and assimilate the remaining local population, and then transplant a bunch of your own citzens from elsewhere into your new territory to make it yours.
Your comment argues against Russia being classic imperialists... which is not the same thing as expansionist settler colonialism.
The two can and often do go hand in hand... but they are not the same thing.
So basically, I can end this here, the vast majority of your reply is off topic.
...
But!
::: spoiler You make some statements and claims I find to be wild, so I'll address them in this expandable section.
Efforts to russify the Ukranian language and population are not 'projection', they were Soviet policy.
...
Yes, there have been and still are fascist Ukranian paramilitary and official military units and actions, and they did do horrible things in Eastern Ukraine, I do not deny that.
2014 being a Banderite coup though?
That's a bit of a stretch.
It had very significant popular support from far too many people to be reasonably described as such.
That'd be like saying the recent protests against Trump, millions of Americans all over the country... well they're actually just a Walmart coup because a wealthy Walmart heir paid for a bunch of ads.
The last part is true, the first part is a laughable mischaracterization, to imply that 10+ million Americans are actually staunchly pro Walmart-regime and all of its favored policies.
...
But this is quibbling over semantic phrasing.
Sure, active, violent fascists existed and still exist in Ukraine.
... but the same goes for Russia, to a much greater extent... as modern Russia... is fascist.
Soviet Union collapsed, got shock doctrined into advanced stage capitalism, which also collapsed very fast, and is now led by a chauvanistic patriarchichal strong man dear leader who hates queers and feminists, rules in close collaboration with an oligarchichal elite, which cracks down on free speech, outright runs the media, and is absurdly jingoistic and corrupt, and manipulates elections and basically routinely openly assasinates / imprisons dissidents and political rivals that become too much of a threat.... oh right and they also incoperate the religion into the state.
I think Ukraine may be a teensy weensy bit less fascist than Russia on the whole.
Just a tad.
Telling me a fascist nation state is justified invading another flawed democracy that has significant but smaller numbers of fascists in that flawed nation state... is justified... because the small number of fascists are worse than the entire militarized fascist nation state, that has had the same strongman leader for 20 years, who has total control over the entire military of that state.... this is like an obviously farsical joke, that this is somehow morally good or justifiable.
...
The US better invade Alberta to ... stamp out Trump cult members there, with indiscriminate civillian casualties and then an annexation of Alberta.
?????
The actual Nazis should have invaded Spain to uh... yeah, kill all the bad guy Carlistas and Francoistas, with indiscriminate civllian casualties, and then turn most of Spain into Lebensraum: Deutschland Westen.
?????
Japan should have invaded China to... wipe out all of Kai-Shek's forces, with indiscriminate civillian casualties, to establish Beijing down to Hong Kong as a Japanese colony instead of a Western one.
?????
Does self determination just not factor into your worldview?
Do you just not believe that a flawed system capable of some level of democratic representatiom... is preferable to that which offers none?
...
Finally, if the idea here is that the ends justify the means, and the ends are: Stop NATO expansionism... well, that's arguably massively failed, as Europe is now militarily preparing itself to be able to defend against Russia without the US.
Finland and Sweden joined NATO after Russia did this thing that was supposed to produce the opposite result.
:::
