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  3. ISPs seem designed to funnel people to capitalist cloud services

ISPs seem designed to funnel people to capitalist cloud services

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  • ellie@slrpnk.netE [email protected]

    Even in an ideal DNS setup, you're probably going to have downtimes whenever your dynamic IP changes. If only because some ISPs even force-disconnect you after a while to change your address.

    fuzzypyro@lemmy.worldF This user is from outside of this forum
    fuzzypyro@lemmy.worldF This user is from outside of this forum
    [email protected]
    wrote on last edited by
    #9

    I mean I’ll be real. Sure in some circumstances that could be an annoyance for 15 seconds for some software that might rely on a session whenever your ip changes like once a month if that. A rotating ip is probably one of the easiest things to work around amongst the plethora of challenges that ISPs present for those who want to self host.

    I mean just take a look at what is involved if you are in a situation where cg-nat is implemented. You legitimately have no control over the root of your network at that point. I have that issue in particular with what is essentially a mobile hotspot as my failover for when my fiber fails. That being said I had to architect it in a way that took that took cg-nat into consideration. If I hadn’t then when fiber fails it would take down my services as a whole anyway.

    My point is that those challenges have workarounds, you can solve those issues relatively easily and they even present a level of security. Where it is actively malicious is with restrictions to capacity such as upload limits in which they to a degree lie about their speeds and capacity. The terms of service stuff is just flat out awful too.

    ellie@slrpnk.netE 1 Reply Last reply
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    • fuzzypyro@lemmy.worldF [email protected]

      I mean I’ll be real. Sure in some circumstances that could be an annoyance for 15 seconds for some software that might rely on a session whenever your ip changes like once a month if that. A rotating ip is probably one of the easiest things to work around amongst the plethora of challenges that ISPs present for those who want to self host.

      I mean just take a look at what is involved if you are in a situation where cg-nat is implemented. You legitimately have no control over the root of your network at that point. I have that issue in particular with what is essentially a mobile hotspot as my failover for when my fiber fails. That being said I had to architect it in a way that took that took cg-nat into consideration. If I hadn’t then when fiber fails it would take down my services as a whole anyway.

      My point is that those challenges have workarounds, you can solve those issues relatively easily and they even present a level of security. Where it is actively malicious is with restrictions to capacity such as upload limits in which they to a degree lie about their speeds and capacity. The terms of service stuff is just flat out awful too.

      ellie@slrpnk.netE This user is from outside of this forum
      ellie@slrpnk.netE This user is from outside of this forum
      [email protected]
      wrote on last edited by [email protected]
      #10

      Some ISPs require changes ever 24 hours and will disconnect you if needed. Also, if you set DNS to cache such a short amount of time that you can react to that in 5 minutes, you will incur way more DNS traffic which can become a problem when your site is busier. Also, even if your DNS TTL is set to a super short value, a web search suggests to me in practice there will likely be downstream clients and networks that ignore it and won't really update in such a short time frame.

      fuzzypyro@lemmy.worldF 1 Reply Last reply
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      • ellie@slrpnk.netE [email protected]

        Some ISPs require changes ever 24 hours and will disconnect you if needed. Also, if you set DNS to cache such a short amount of time that you can react to that in 5 minutes, you will incur way more DNS traffic which can become a problem when your site is busier. Also, even if your DNS TTL is set to a super short value, a web search suggests to me in practice there will likely be downstream clients and networks that ignore it and won't really update in such a short time frame.

        fuzzypyro@lemmy.worldF This user is from outside of this forum
        fuzzypyro@lemmy.worldF This user is from outside of this forum
        [email protected]
        wrote on last edited by
        #11

        What ISP are you referring to? I have genuinely never heard of an isp that takes 24 hours to rotate your IP. Also utilizing dynamicdns is not going to incur more dns traffic? Dynamic DNS updates your dns provider from a system on your local network that your pub ip has changed then your provider will start sending traffic to the new ip. Propagation used to take a while but I haven’t experienced propagation wait times of over 10 minutes in years. This all being said dynamic DNS isn’t exactly the most elegant solution. It is just one of the simplest that I mentioned. There are significantly better options overall that completely take the requirement of a static pubip completely out of the equation and can be built using all free open source tools relatively easily.

        ellie@slrpnk.netE 1 Reply Last reply
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        • fuzzypyro@lemmy.worldF [email protected]

          What ISP are you referring to? I have genuinely never heard of an isp that takes 24 hours to rotate your IP. Also utilizing dynamicdns is not going to incur more dns traffic? Dynamic DNS updates your dns provider from a system on your local network that your pub ip has changed then your provider will start sending traffic to the new ip. Propagation used to take a while but I haven’t experienced propagation wait times of over 10 minutes in years. This all being said dynamic DNS isn’t exactly the most elegant solution. It is just one of the simplest that I mentioned. There are significantly better options overall that completely take the requirement of a static pubip completely out of the equation and can be built using all free open source tools relatively easily.

          ellie@slrpnk.netE This user is from outside of this forum
          ellie@slrpnk.netE This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote on last edited by
          #12

          It causes way more traffic for the DNS server to use a shorter TTL, so yes, it does incur more DNS traffic. In Germany some providers will disconnect you regularly if you stay connected for too long.

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          • a@91268476.xyzA [email protected]

            @dgdft @ellie @selfhosted this is the way

            ellie@slrpnk.netE This user is from outside of this forum
            ellie@slrpnk.netE This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote last edited by
            #13

            While I agree on a practical level, and pragmatism sure is important, long term that workaround still keeps you paying for cloud services and gives cloud companies an easy way to directly man-in-the-middle your traffic. So I'm hoping one day the situation will improve.

            a@91268476.xyzA 1 Reply Last reply
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            • ellie@slrpnk.netE [email protected]

              While I agree on a practical level, and pragmatism sure is important, long term that workaround still keeps you paying for cloud services and gives cloud companies an easy way to directly man-in-the-middle your traffic. So I'm hoping one day the situation will improve.

              a@91268476.xyzA This user is from outside of this forum
              a@91268476.xyzA This user is from outside of this forum
              [email protected]
              wrote last edited by
              #14

              @ellie @selfhosted what is the actual alternative? also, not all vps are offfered by megacorps.

              ellie@slrpnk.netE 1 Reply Last reply
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              • a@91268476.xyzA [email protected]

                @ellie @selfhosted what is the actual alternative? also, not all vps are offfered by megacorps.

                ellie@slrpnk.netE This user is from outside of this forum
                ellie@slrpnk.netE This user is from outside of this forum
                [email protected]
                wrote last edited by [email protected]
                #15

                The alternative is to get your ISP to offer you a static IPv6 and a reverse DNS PTR entry for your IPv6, like I asked for in the initial post. Some ISPs do if you offer them more money, some only do if you offer them more money and a legit business registration, apparently a few rare ones do it for free, and some never do it.

                Once you got the static IP, you can point DNS directly to yourself, and there's no VPS or anything in between. Browser traffic and so on directly comes to your machine.

                a@91268476.xyzA 1 Reply Last reply
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                • ellie@slrpnk.netE [email protected]

                  The alternative is to get your ISP to offer you a static IPv6 and a reverse DNS PTR entry for your IPv6, like I asked for in the initial post. Some ISPs do if you offer them more money, some only do if you offer them more money and a legit business registration, apparently a few rare ones do it for free, and some never do it.

                  Once you got the static IP, you can point DNS directly to yourself, and there's no VPS or anything in between. Browser traffic and so on directly comes to your machine.

                  a@91268476.xyzA This user is from outside of this forum
                  a@91268476.xyzA This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote last edited by
                  #16

                  @ellie @selfhosted I've never seen that from an ISP. 🤷‍♂️

                  ellie@slrpnk.netE 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • S [email protected]

                    Yes, that too. I hadn't even thought about trying to send email from a home ISP. Everyone knows you basically can't. I thought the idea was to receive email rather than send it, so you wouldn't be relying on some bigtech company to store it for you.

                    ellie@slrpnk.netE This user is from outside of this forum
                    ellie@slrpnk.netE This user is from outside of this forum
                    [email protected]
                    wrote last edited by [email protected]
                    #17

                    For what it's worth, regarding port blocks, I had relatively good experiences with that with a local ISP here. There's no guarantee, but many ISPs block SMTP to prevent accidental zombie botnets from sending email and not technical users, so by asking might already be enough to show that you know enough about it to be unblocked.

                    As for the blocks, many spamlists you can get yourself unlisted. But I don't know what permanent range blocks may exist in some systems beyond that.

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • a@91268476.xyzA [email protected]

                      @ellie @selfhosted I've never seen that from an ISP. 🤷‍♂️

                      ellie@slrpnk.netE This user is from outside of this forum
                      ellie@slrpnk.netE This user is from outside of this forum
                      [email protected]
                      wrote last edited by
                      #18

                      Most offer it, but often not for the regular consumer contracts.

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