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  3. SteamOS massively beats Windows on the Legion Go S

SteamOS massively beats Windows on the Legion Go S

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  • ampersandrew@lemmy.worldA [email protected]

    Dual booting has existed for a long time. Microsoft keeps making it more annoying to do. For my next PC, I'm not even keeping a dual boot around as a safety net; I'm just doing Linux.

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    wrote last edited by
    #16

    Dual booting has existed for a long time but this same boost in performance when using SteamOS might not appear on desktops.

    ampersandrew@lemmy.worldA 1 Reply Last reply
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    • O [email protected]

      Dual booting has existed for a long time but this same boost in performance when using SteamOS might not appear on desktops.

      ampersandrew@lemmy.worldA This user is from outside of this forum
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      wrote last edited by
      #17

      I haven't tracked the performance in Proton for a long time, because I already used that information to make my purchasing decisions, but single digit percentage improvements in performance when running games via Proton has also been the case on desktops for a long time. If there's any further improvement to be seen from SteamOS's game mode rather than regular desktop, you should see it in Bazzite as well.

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      • ampersandrew@lemmy.worldA [email protected]

        It might be, but the point of the Microsoft handheld is to grant access to Game Pass and games with lousy anti-cheat on a UI that doesn't suck like desktop Windows does.

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        wrote last edited by
        #18

        The imagine if their cloud runs the game using proton. The provider with the lowest overhead would have lower costs and thus a cheaper service. If Microsoft doesn't do it, someone else could.

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • O [email protected]

          I hate to say it, but if MS released a competitor, it will probably outsell the Deck 5:1 regardless of quality, if only because of the advertising reach. Your average non-gamer has never heard of Steam. Everyone and their grandmother know MS and would therefore be more willing to get one for their kid.

          Edit: I suppose I should explain a bit. People here are comparing Steam DAUs to console DAUs. That’s not the same as sales.

          All of those users are already playing on a computer. Also, many of the most popular games on Steam I are free and low-spec. A lot of Steam users are not spenders.

          Compare the 3.7 million Deck sales to the 2.2 million Switch 2 preorders (and the 150 million Switch 1 sales) before it even hit shelves. You can’t even buy a Deck in a store and you won’t see an ad for one. If MS makes a handheld, they’ll have billions at their disposal in advertising.

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          wrote last edited by [email protected]
          #19

          I would rather bet that most people have no clue what an operating system is and that the one they (unknowingly) use is made by Microsoft. On the other hand if they play games (on that PC), they will know Steam, because they actively had to install it and click its icon frequently.

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          • ampersandrew@lemmy.worldA [email protected]

            Do you have a source for that? As far as I know, Microsoft never gave much of a damn about making Linux versions of games. They did have an Xbox parity clause for games that came to other consoles, but that's pretty different than what you're saying.

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            wrote last edited by
            #20

            I learnt most of the story from this book Renegades of the Empire

            The story is summarized here: https://gist.github.com/kirkegaard/1055336

            It's all about how DirectX/Direct3D was launching and competing with OpenGL (the open standard).

            In a nutshell, MS literally ported games for free to Windows (Doom95 being the flagship example) and/or subsidized the development of games for Direct3D so there would be no appetite for OpenGL.

            This is equivalent to Amazon or Walmart selling their stuff at a loss until all competitors go bankrupt

            ampersandrew@lemmy.worldA 1 Reply Last reply
            7
            • J [email protected]

              I learnt most of the story from this book Renegades of the Empire

              The story is summarized here: https://gist.github.com/kirkegaard/1055336

              It's all about how DirectX/Direct3D was launching and competing with OpenGL (the open standard).

              In a nutshell, MS literally ported games for free to Windows (Doom95 being the flagship example) and/or subsidized the development of games for Direct3D so there would be no appetite for OpenGL.

              This is equivalent to Amazon or Walmart selling their stuff at a loss until all competitors go bankrupt

              ampersandrew@lemmy.worldA This user is from outside of this forum
              ampersandrew@lemmy.worldA This user is from outside of this forum
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              wrote last edited by
              #21

              Well, the truth of that is quite a bit different than how you put it, and it's also more carrot than stick. There were efforts to make Linux versions of games after this adoption of DirectX, and they didn't take; I have a Linux disc for Unreal Tournament 2004 that came in the same box as the Windows one. What Microsoft did surely sucked for everyone, but fortunately, we live in a world where their recent efforts to do similar things aren't working. They didn't manage to siphon PC gaming over the Windows Store, and Windows handhelds are demonstrably worse and sell worse than the Linux ones. Consoles' walled gardens are slowly crumbling from natural market forces to the openness of PC, and that includes a PC where almost all of those games work on Linux.

              Microsoft does not have a position of strength here right now, and they know it, so they instead pivoted to just being an enormous publisher with a subscription service that's lucrative but has already plateaued.

              J 1 Reply Last reply
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              • ampersandrew@lemmy.worldA [email protected]

                Dual booting has existed for a long time. Microsoft keeps making it more annoying to do. For my next PC, I'm not even keeping a dual boot around as a safety net; I'm just doing Linux.

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                wrote last edited by
                #22

                Funny how much ms bitches that secure boot is REQUIRED for win 11. Then you can just turn it off after installing

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • ampersandrew@lemmy.worldA [email protected]

                  Well, the truth of that is quite a bit different than how you put it, and it's also more carrot than stick. There were efforts to make Linux versions of games after this adoption of DirectX, and they didn't take; I have a Linux disc for Unreal Tournament 2004 that came in the same box as the Windows one. What Microsoft did surely sucked for everyone, but fortunately, we live in a world where their recent efforts to do similar things aren't working. They didn't manage to siphon PC gaming over the Windows Store, and Windows handhelds are demonstrably worse and sell worse than the Linux ones. Consoles' walled gardens are slowly crumbling from natural market forces to the openness of PC, and that includes a PC where almost all of those games work on Linux.

                  Microsoft does not have a position of strength here right now, and they know it, so they instead pivoted to just being an enormous publisher with a subscription service that's lucrative but has already plateaued.

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                  wrote last edited by
                  #23

                  Well, the truth of that is quite a bit different than how you put it, and it’s also more carrot than stick.

                  True, I misremembered... however, this is anti-competitive practice 101 anyway

                  What Microsoft did surely sucked for everyone, but fortunately, we live in a world where their recent efforts to do similar things aren’t working.

                  But the fact they keep trying these anti-competitive strategies and have no consequences for them is a problem. We cannot rely on "it didn't work for them this time" as if that is a solution because next time it would work for them and then we are all fucked for another few decades

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                  • thedemonbuer@lemmy.worldT [email protected]

                    What's wild to me is that these games were all developed to run on Windows, not SteamOS or any other Linux distro. This is with the games requiring a compatibility layer to run. Imagine what they could do if the games were made to run on SteamOS.

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                    wrote last edited by
                    #24

                    That's the magic of proton, and all of the tools that make it work.

                    DXVK alone is incredible.

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                    • O [email protected]

                      I wonder if this same concept would apply to desktops. If you could install both SteamOS and keep windows for when you wanted to run something other than a game. This could be huge.

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                      wrote last edited by
                      #25

                      The performance gains are from all the tweaks people have done to proton to fix the games. Running regular programs through wine will only be slower.

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                      • J [email protected]

                        when Windows "challenges" others, they don't compete on merit... it's easier to blackmail game developers by threatening to kick them out of Windows / Xbox platforms if they develop for Linux... this is how we ended up with "windows is the only os for gaming" back in the 90s

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                        wrote last edited by
                        #26

                        Yes but that's it right, they are not developing for Linux, Steam is doing it for the developer. There is nothing stopping Windows of saying sell exclusively through my Store, though I believe they have tried.

                        But I do understand were you are coming from Windows is definitely not the most ethical company and definitely they are not up for fair fight, what I'm trying to say is that I hope the game developers focus more in the mobile market and optimize the games more.

                        D 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • O [email protected]

                          I hate to say it, but if MS released a competitor, it will probably outsell the Deck 5:1 regardless of quality, if only because of the advertising reach. Your average non-gamer has never heard of Steam. Everyone and their grandmother know MS and would therefore be more willing to get one for their kid.

                          Edit: I suppose I should explain a bit. People here are comparing Steam DAUs to console DAUs. That’s not the same as sales.

                          All of those users are already playing on a computer. Also, many of the most popular games on Steam I are free and low-spec. A lot of Steam users are not spenders.

                          Compare the 3.7 million Deck sales to the 2.2 million Switch 2 preorders (and the 150 million Switch 1 sales) before it even hit shelves. You can’t even buy a Deck in a store and you won’t see an ad for one. If MS makes a handheld, they’ll have billions at their disposal in advertising.

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                          wrote last edited by
                          #27

                          The Steam Deck was the way of bringing SteamOS to the masses, now the HW developers will sell their devices in Walmart just by the Switch and the other consoles, it will be cheaper due to the 0 license cost (or, you know, pocketing the difference) with a big, ever expanding, catalog.

                          About the Switch 2, the hype is there definitely and it is a known brand, mainly sold to families and casual gamers. But even PlayStation and Xbox are not competing with Nintendo.

                          O 1 Reply Last reply
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                          • O [email protected]

                            The Steam Deck was the way of bringing SteamOS to the masses, now the HW developers will sell their devices in Walmart just by the Switch and the other consoles, it will be cheaper due to the 0 license cost (or, you know, pocketing the difference) with a big, ever expanding, catalog.

                            About the Switch 2, the hype is there definitely and it is a known brand, mainly sold to families and casual gamers. But even PlayStation and Xbox are not competing with Nintendo.

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                            wrote last edited by
                            #28

                            I agree with everything you said, but I still don’t think that will change the decision of someone on the fence. The Deck is the odd one out.

                            Don’t get me wrong, I love the Deck and SteamOS and want it to succeed, and expect them to to a certain degree, but I just know the average consumer and they’ll just look at the SteamOS handhelds as a weird knockoff gaming computer.

                            We all know how special it is because we were the target market. But when all is said and done, it comes down to what people know.

                            If Valve was advertising like the big guys do, maybe, but with no ad support, not a chance.

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                            • K [email protected]

                              It will be very funny if Microsoft releases their handheld, and is instantly better with Linux.

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                              wrote last edited by [email protected]
                              #29

                              I think the issue here is DirectX, so unless there's meaningful changes to how DX works internally, DXVK at this point can always be a step ahead with all the changes it can make without tech debt to worry about. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why Series X despite being stronger than PS5 on paper, struggles to match performance in non zero count of games.

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                              • P [email protected]

                                So far it seems to be an issue with the Legion itself. The ROG Ally sees no meaningful improvements with SteamOS.

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                                wrote last edited by
                                #30

                                As an ally owner, this is rather unfortunate

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                                • D [email protected]

                                  As an ally owner, this is rather unfortunate

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                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #31

                                  Unfortunate why? It just means Asus sold you a pretty well optimized product.

                                  D 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • P [email protected]

                                    Unfortunate why? It just means Asus sold you a pretty well optimized product.

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                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #32

                                    I suppose there's no reason to take the time and remove windows from it

                                    P 1 Reply Last reply
                                    1
                                    • P [email protected]

                                      So far it seems to be an issue with the Legion itself. The ROG Ally sees no meaningful improvements with SteamOS.

                                      thefanum@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
                                      thefanum@lemmy.worldT This user is from outside of this forum
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                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #33

                                      Bullshit

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                                      1
                                      • abnormalhumanbeing@lemmy.abnormalbeings.spaceA [email protected]
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                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #34

                                        If they make a Linux app for Game Pass & just let Proton do its thing, they could still make money off people that don’t use Windows.

                                        abnormalhumanbeing@lemmy.abnormalbeings.spaceA 1 Reply Last reply
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                                        • kemsat@lemmy.worldK [email protected]

                                          If they make a Linux app for Game Pass & just let Proton do its thing, they could still make money off people that don’t use Windows.

                                          abnormalhumanbeing@lemmy.abnormalbeings.spaceA This user is from outside of this forum
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                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #35

                                          Probably, but I know that at least in the past, their philosophy was to uphold Windows as the one gold standard at all costs, and I doubt that has changed.

                                          It might be one of those non-authentic quotes, but I heard that Steve Ballmer supposedly once said, that they'd rather have people pirate Windows instead of using another OS. No matter if that is an authentic statement - there is a real synergetic effect: If everyone is used to how Windows works at home (even if pirated there), then any potential employer will want to have Windows licenses for their IT and office stuff, which is where the main money lies. That's one of the reasons Microsoft has been so furiously anti-competition, because their main advantage is being the de-facto standard, and being the only proper gaming system became a part of that strategy, with attempts to further lock-in any gamers into their ecosystem if at all possible (some of which thankfully failed).

                                          So I think making an app for Game Pass for Linux won't be in their interest any time soon, unfortunately.

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