Because I can have 3 phones, 2 tablets, 3 computers and 4 server on the same Tailnet in 15 minutes when starting from scratch

ive been eyeing up netbird but havnt got around to trying it yet. its fully open source at least, and theyre based in germany is anyone cares about that

I guess that's neat but I don't think I've ever needed more than one connection to a corpo VPN at a time

Headscale is great if you like networking fun, but that aside I'm not understanding why VC funding is such a black mark to the poster. Tailscale doesn't generate meaningful revenue streams as its early-stage, so it has to secure funding to continue operations until they achieve high enough revenue to go public. That's pretty standard in a business life-cycle, though. It seems like the main complaint is that Tailscale is a business.

Personally, my ISP (T-Mobile 5G) has CGNAT and blocks all incoming traffic. I can't simply Wireguard into my network. Tailscale has been my intermediary to get remote access.

I guess it's time to figure how how to host an alternative on a VPS (I see Headscale mentioned in these comments).

Tailscale/headscale/wire guard is different from a normal vpn setup.

VPN: you tunnel into a remote network and all your connections flow through as if you’re on that remote network.

Tailscale: your devices each run the daemon and basically create a separate, encrypted, dedicated overlay network between them no matter where they are or what network they are on. You can make an exit node where network traffic can exit the overlay network to the local network for a specific cidr, but without that, you’re only devices on the network are the devices connected to the overlay. I can setup a set of severs to be on the Tailscale overlay and only on that network, and it will only serve data with the devices also on the overlay network, and they can be distributed anywhere without any crazy router configuration or port forwarding or NAT or whatever.

Meh. I will keep using it

Yup, I don't know if that is OP's intention, but I would agree myself with the complaint that "Tailscale is a business"

The way I see it, if it's a business it must generate revenue (either now or down the road), and that is enough to have me worried.
I do have a Tailscale registration, and the way they approach email communication is already a yellow flag to me (too many ad emails)

A bunch really, Headscale with Tailscale client, Nebula VPN, Netmaker, Zerotier.

No writeups. I tried following the Headscale doc for a test last year. Set it up on the smallest DigitalOcean VM. Worked fine. Didn't use a UI, had to add new clients via CLI on the server. When I set it up for real, I'd likely setup a UI as well and put it in a cloud outside of the US. It would work at home too but any other connection would die if my home internet dies or the power does. E.g. accessing one laptop from another, or accessing the off-site backup location.

Tailscale never sat right with me. The convenience was nice, but - like other VC-funded projects - it followed that ever-familiar pattern of an "easy" service popping up out of nowhere and gaining massive popularity seemingly overnight.

I can't say I'm surprised by any of this.

That's pretty standard in a business life-cycle, though

I don't know where people ever got the idea that normal = acceptable. I hear this used to justify all sorts of awful crap. It was only ever normalized because users were apathetic.

And what about the Linux Foundation? They are funded through private equity. Should you consider switching away because of that?

Does The Linux Foundation have complete control over Linux?

That's not really a justifiable reason, though. The Linux Foundation provides grants and scholarships to the open source community, but they do that through private equity business. So transitively, many open source projects are funded by businesses looking to capitalize on that innovation. Do you consider that when pulling from a git repository? No, that's overbearing. Additionally Headscale is in part maintained by a Tailscale employee. That would surely create a conflict of interest given Tailscale is solely interested in generating revenue.

The problem, though, is that VC-funded projects bite off way more than they can chew from the start and have to enshittify to keep shareholders happy at that level.

Growth for the sake of growth is a fundamentally broken concept. Tailscale provides a free service that many use. They already offer a paid support tier for companies, like other certain FOSS projects do, so why not call it good there? Grow based on actual customer needs, instead of shareholder bullshit "needs" (line must go up ).

@exu @Wahots Yggdrasil, too.

It seems like the main complaint is that Tailscale is a business. And what about the Linux Foundation?

The Linux Foundation is not a business.

Just looked at NetBird, it looks suspiciously similar to Tailscale in what it does except they also got an open-source control server. They have self-hosting doc right in their web site. Looks interesting. Can't find much about the company other than it's based in Berlin and it's currently private - Wiretrustee UG.

Tailscale uses WG though, so it's fundamentally the same thing. Like you said - just do Headscale on a VPS.

Just use normal wireguard, why do you need tails or heads at all?

So, companies should not be allowed to invest in other companies? Who is allowed to invest in companies then? Only private individuals? But those individuals are apathetic, so they have to be made to? Or if they don't want to, then since other companies aren't allowed, wealthy private individuals would need to? Its not normal because its acceptable, its normal because the alternative is fantastical and unrealistic.

To the other point, does Tailscale have complete control over Wireguard? They don't control the technology behind that. They do for their control server tech and to some extent Headscale, but that's not what its built on anymore then what's built on Linux.