"You can't just have Geralt for every single game" says his voice actor, and if you think The Witcher 4 making Ciri the protagonist is "woke," then "read the damn books"
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I want to believe this is just s straw man argument but sadly I know there are enough jerks out there who absolutely call everything that doesn’t cater precisely to toxic masculinity wOkE.
I think it‘s a bit of a bummer that the ending of Witcher 3 that does make the most sense in-universe isn‘t canon in favor of what I think is pure fan service. I will probably still play the shit out of this though because all of their games have been hitters for me. Even Cyberpunk at launch. Even Witcher 1.
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anyone who has read the books was likely surprised that ciri wasn't the main character of any of the games when they first started coming out :::especially since geralt dies at the end of the books :::
ciri was more the mc than geralt for most of the books. she's the child of destiny. she's the young character that grows up as we follow their journey. she's the one that finds herself and shows major character development throughout the books. the only character development geralt goes through is accepting his bond with ciri.
the first two games never mentioning ciri was outright bizarre tbh. only even remotely possibly because geralt lost his memory. like, with where geralt as at by the end of the books the only thing you could possibly expect him to do on regaining his memory is frantically search for signs of his adopted daughter
to a longtime book reader my reaction to ciri being the protag of the next game was "FINALLY"
my only curiosity at this point is how much she'll be like book ciri. does she know magic? in the books ciri goes to sorceress school and then gets trained in primal magic by unicorns and immortal space elves. can you fuck a horse? that was one of the more... questionable scenes in the book.
tangent: sapkowski's politics occasionally bleed through in weird ways in the books. like three's a scene where a woman finds out she's pregnant mid way through a literal war that our band wades through on their journey to save the world. the party basically needs the woman to proceed. she does not want the child. i believe it was the product of rape. yet for some reason geralt and a literal fucking vampire convince her that abortion is wrong and she should keep it instead of drinking a potion about it. it was so randomly out of character for everyone involved. but hey, that's catholics for you i guess...
/tangenti think they generally said that ciri lost her elder blood powers after the king of the hunt was killed right? otherwise I'm gonna be really curious how handle that as well. she should be sort of the world's greatest sorceress otherwise. ooh, i wonder if she'll make quips about cyberpunk and/or other worlds she's traveled to. like, she spent Decent bit of time in Arthurian legend. she shows up briefly in Victorian London.
also, what will the world at large look like? they can't do it like the last time where your previous save could alter the new game based on your decisions. you were simply able to do too much. they'd need to make like 3 entirely separate stories at the very least. like, who rules the north? are you the empress of nilfguard? is the church burning all the nonhumans at record pace? you can basically decide the entire fate of the northern realms and all of its people in multiple ways... unless it just takes place elsewhere. maybe we'll be in zerrikania this time or some shit. there are many distant lands that the games never take us. it would be much more doable that way. then you'd just have to change dialogue and maybe swap out a few characters.
aaaanyway... yeah, anyone mad about her being the mc is a dumbass that doesn't know shit about the story.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I was under the impression that it wasn't Victorian London, but The Plague Year. IIRC she, canonically, brings a blanket infested with plague lice from here to there, and ends up dropping it next to the ship Catriona, which is how the Catriona plague actually gets started. It was one of those "oh shit, yes, that explains everything" moments for me when I first read the books.
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Well, unless you fucked up the choices near the end. Really not fond of CDPR's habit of that.
Yeah, there were a couple of tiny decisions, any of which failed you out if you got them wrong, and several of them had deceptive descriptions during the QTE.
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It's about time women got more accurate representation in games. How many games have you play as a man compared to playing as a woman? Technically it should be 50/50 to more accurately represent the real world.
I don't think representation is the main issue, it is more about how they are presented.
Striding for a perfect 50/50, doesn't really sense if they are all just stereotypes and sexual objectified. Also there are many other underrepresented population groups.
IMO, it is more important to focus good well written and complex characters, that represent real circumstances right.
I don't complain that AAA studios have gone 'woke' because they now include choices to select from marginalized groups, I complain about them because they are often do not offer a deeper perspective of people in that group and are just different skins.
In some way, I can understand, games often happen in a Fantasy world, but I would wish that selecting different characters would do more than just exchanging the player mesh, texture and voice pack.
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I don't know if I have met anyone complaining about Ciri being the protagonist of Witcher 4. Even the most conservative people I know who are fans of the series are pumped about her being the main character because they love the story and it's the only logical way forward. The only complaints I have heard are that in universe she's kind of overpowered for a video game protagonist. I think people whining about this are fake fans or just agitators who don't even play these games.
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I'm sorry, but I still can't help but laugh about the anti-woke Asterion flat-butt mod, and now in my head I just see all anti-woke gamers as jealous flat-butters.
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I don't think representation is the main issue, it is more about how they are presented.
Striding for a perfect 50/50, doesn't really sense if they are all just stereotypes and sexual objectified. Also there are many other underrepresented population groups.
IMO, it is more important to focus good well written and complex characters, that represent real circumstances right.
I don't complain that AAA studios have gone 'woke' because they now include choices to select from marginalized groups, I complain about them because they are often do not offer a deeper perspective of people in that group and are just different skins.
In some way, I can understand, games often happen in a Fantasy world, but I would wish that selecting different characters would do more than just exchanging the player mesh, texture and voice pack.
The well written part is my concern. Or we will get the same quality as a lot of recent movies and shows. Where the characters are stereotypes, poorly written, poorly developed. With plot points that are just randomly forced into the story, and that plot point has nothing to do with the rest of the story. You know the ones, where something has been added to the story and has no reason or meaning or benefit to being part of the story.
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What ISN’T woke to conservatives/republicans anymore?
Please don’t answer that, I know the answer, but come on. Pick up a book.
I mean, if you look up "gamergate" and see the real reason why these little whiny bitches had such a shit fit. You can see that a lot of male gamers are a bunch of whiny little bitches who throw idiotic tantrums whenever anything highlights women in the gaming world.
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Yes I agree with your interpretation of what woke currently means. I'm saying that this is actually using woke ironically an insult. An unironic usage has no negative connotations.
Right. The right wingers are arguing (usually without knowing it because they don't understand words) for people to stay asleep and not think or question
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I'm sorry, but I still can't help but laugh about the anti-woke Asterion flat-butt mod, and now in my head I just see all anti-woke gamers as jealous flat-butters.
They hate us cause they anus
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I don't think representation is the main issue, it is more about how they are presented.
Striding for a perfect 50/50, doesn't really sense if they are all just stereotypes and sexual objectified. Also there are many other underrepresented population groups.
IMO, it is more important to focus good well written and complex characters, that represent real circumstances right.
I don't complain that AAA studios have gone 'woke' because they now include choices to select from marginalized groups, I complain about them because they are often do not offer a deeper perspective of people in that group and are just different skins.
In some way, I can understand, games often happen in a Fantasy world, but I would wish that selecting different characters would do more than just exchanging the player mesh, texture and voice pack.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Unless you are also complaining about it when white male characters are also surface-level, 2-D, copy-and-paste characters then all you are saying is "Only white male characters are allowed to be simple or a stereotype/trope." Lets be honest, not every game needs a complex and well written character, and that is fine. If they choose to go that route it doesn't matter what race, religion, or gender the character is in the first place. So it doesn't matter if they are a white male, a latina woman, or a black non-binary person.
Now I'm also not gonna shut down your solution without being constructive and providing my own solution, cause I don't think quotas are the answer either. Instead we should be uplifting and empowering marginalized creators and game designers so that they can make more characters that they want to make. Which is generally characters they can relate to. If people want more characters that are women, then the game industry needs to become a safe space for women and empower them so they can provide more representation for characters. Same thing for any other demographic. That will make sure that these characters are being made in an aethentic and organic way, and not just being pumped out to meet a quota, but also isn't restricting when marginalized demographics can be used as characters.
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If anything, Ciri's the character whose story is wrapped up by the end of Witcher 3, she saved the world and fulfilled her destiny. Unlike Geralt or the sorceresses, she does get old too.
It's definitely understandable that a lot of players would feel betrayed at having Ciri becoming the MC after 3 games of Geralt. People would riot if you made someone else than Lara Croft the MC of tomb raider. A better solution would probably be a character creator for a new generation of witchers. Ciri is too powerful to be the MC.
Isn’t the good ending geralt giving her a Witcher blade and calling her an official witcher? That to me sets up part 4.
End of the day im glad geralt gets a rest. Besides they’re remaking 1 and 2 so the geralt fix will come -
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Why complicate things ? Games are not books. I see Witcher game I expect Geralt. What is wrong with this thinking ? Do I need to think everytime I play Horizon ? No when I play Horizon I expect Aloy.
There is nothing to do with woke. If you expect people to read books before they play a game there is something wrong with you not with people who want to play a game with their favourite character.
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This is understandable if someone has a strong gender identity. Most people don't have much of a gender so it's less important to them.
Could also be about your conception of what you're doing in a game - are you being the character, or controlling them
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Could also be about your conception of what you're doing in a game - are you being the character, or controlling them
That's why drag personally believes all RPGs with character customisation should have gender selection unless there's a very good reason why not. The one good exception drag has seen is Pentiment - in that game you're a mediaeval writer who hangs out with the monks at the Abbey. That story can't be authentic with a woman player character. But that's a very rare situation. Even games with named main characters can have gender select. Look at Prey and Mass Effect. It's an accessibility feature.
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Why complicate things ? Games are not books. I see Witcher game I expect Geralt. What is wrong with this thinking ? Do I need to think everytime I play Horizon ? No when I play Horizon I expect Aloy.
There is nothing to do with woke. If you expect people to read books before they play a game there is something wrong with you not with people who want to play a game with their favourite character.
Geralt needs retirement. The ending of Blood and Wine expansion, tells you that loud and clear, and agree with that. It was a perfect ending for the Trilogy.
Ending with Ciri following the Witcher path, is Canon now. I dont agree with the decision of Ciri becoming a Witcher (not making her the protagonist, but her taking the Mutagens), but i want to see how they explain that turn of events.
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Unpopular opinion:
Witcher 4 won’t be as good as Witcher 3 cause the third one was very good.
So no matter who they chose, it’s probably gonna be underwhelming.
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I don't think representation is the main issue, it is more about how they are presented.
Striding for a perfect 50/50, doesn't really sense if they are all just stereotypes and sexual objectified. Also there are many other underrepresented population groups.
IMO, it is more important to focus good well written and complex characters, that represent real circumstances right.
I don't complain that AAA studios have gone 'woke' because they now include choices to select from marginalized groups, I complain about them because they are often do not offer a deeper perspective of people in that group and are just different skins.
In some way, I can understand, games often happen in a Fantasy world, but I would wish that selecting different characters would do more than just exchanging the player mesh, texture and voice pack.
That's why the trailer has me so hyped for this game. It looks like the game is going to be different because Ciri is the protagonist. Her experience, reactions, and approach to saving a young woman from being sacrificed are totally different than what Geralt's would be. I hate it when games like Mass Effect are like "Oh! You can play as FemShep! That totally counts as representation!" even though it changes literally nothing about the story.
I want more games that actually address the real and significant differences in the experiences and perspectives of different characters. I'm always disappointed when there's a "female" option that's just a re-skin of the male character with no changes in how the character interacts with the world and the story. (This happens a lot in non-video game media too.)
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Why complicate things ? Games are not books. I see Witcher game I expect Geralt. What is wrong with this thinking ? Do I need to think everytime I play Horizon ? No when I play Horizon I expect Aloy.
There is nothing to do with woke. If you expect people to read books before they play a game there is something wrong with you not with people who want to play a game with their favourite character.
I dont think its necessarily to complicate things but more that we've had Geralt as a main character for 3 games. His time is ending, and if you love him as a main character there are those 3 aforementioned games you can play to get what youre looking for. Switching up the main protagonist to another character that we as gamers have learned to love and accept through the series is probably the best move, both for business and canonically.
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Why complicate things ? Games are not books. I see Witcher game I expect Geralt. What is wrong with this thinking ? Do I need to think everytime I play Horizon ? No when I play Horizon I expect Aloy.
There is nothing to do with woke. If you expect people to read books before they play a game there is something wrong with you not with people who want to play a game with their favourite character.
The Witcher game series is based on the book series.
The post criticizes not the expectation of players that haven't read the books, but of the subset of people that think making Ciri the protagonist is a political message, when it's just staying true to its source.
Your critique has nothing to do with this post.
Expectations differ from person to person. You see the games as a separate thing. They are obviously not. But it's totally fair to want another witcher game with Gerald with his story continued. If the original creator of the story didn't write it that way, then CD Project Red would have to come up with their own story. Straying too far from source material can end badly - see Game of Thrones seasons 6-8.
