Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse

NodeBB

  1. Home
  2. Games
  3. The signatures are still coming and it's already making an impact

The signatures are still coming and it's already making an impact

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Games
games
197 Posts 126 Posters 0 Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • K [email protected]
    This post did not contain any content.
    R This user is from outside of this forum
    R This user is from outside of this forum
    [email protected]
    wrote last edited by
    #80

    So, a shitton of game developers just got laid off from Microsoft, another in a string of "restructuring" nonsense that's been rampant in the industry.

    That's a lot of people with gaming expertise who could be put to work helping companies transition their games to single player experiences or at least making them accessible to customers after support stops. If the EU ends up pushing this forward, there's a decent business opportunity in there.

    1 Reply Last reply
    6
    • K [email protected]
      This post did not contain any content.
      F This user is from outside of this forum
      F This user is from outside of this forum
      [email protected]
      wrote last edited by
      #81

      Honestly I don't see it as the developers losing anything. They still make the same products, they still sell the same products, and when they're done with those products forever they have to give hosting capability up to the public.

      What are they afraid of? That we won't play their new games if they can't shut the old games down?

      1 Reply Last reply
      9
      • S [email protected]

        Just saying, if my highschool programming classes are any indicator, there's a ton of released binaries out there that use copywritten and otherwise plaigarized code

        S This user is from outside of this forum
        S This user is from outside of this forum
        [email protected]
        wrote last edited by
        #82

        And that's one of the big reasons companies don't even think about open-sourcing their code.

        1 Reply Last reply
        2
        • A [email protected]

          EvE Online doesn't use root access anticheat software. I know it doesn't because it runs on Linux just fine. That particular player base is the worst hive of scum and villainy that you'll find outside of government. Clearly the anticheat software isn't as essential as game studios would have you believe. The only major cheating I'm aware of in EvE was the BoB scandal, and that involved Devs cheating because they were Devs.

          M This user is from outside of this forum
          M This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote last edited by
          #83

          Can the EvE online method be applied to dissimilar games like e.g. fps games?

          A 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • S [email protected]

            I could imagine third-party companies springing up whose entire business model is JUST providing unofficial servers for discontinued games and moderating them

            That kind of already exists, you can buy hosting for Minecraft and other games. AFAIK, moderation isn't a part of it, but many private groups exist that run public servers and manage their own moderation. It exists already, and that should absolutely be brought up as a bill is being considered.

            D This user is from outside of this forum
            D This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote last edited by
            #84

            We have had that exact model for decades. Hosting companies use to and probably still offer rack space for arena shooters. The main company managed the master server, which was just a listing of IP addresses, but there were only ever a few official game servers with defaults loaded.

            1 Reply Last reply
            4
            • R [email protected]

              Totally agree but the person they’re responding to implied they were some scrappy indie production. Ex33 (there are caveats/asterisks here but still) is a much better example. I think at its peak the whole team was like 40 people with hired hands.

              M This user is from outside of this forum
              M This user is from outside of this forum
              [email protected]
              wrote last edited by
              #85

              They did not, they said you can be successful without corpo overhead and bullshittery.

              R 1 Reply Last reply
              7
              • S [email protected]

                Everyone knows where the proprietary code is. It doesn’t just get merged in “by accident” unless you are a really shit developer (and to be fair some are).

                Heh. You are still overestimating the average developer. Random code gets copy-pasted into files without attribution all the time. One guy might know, but if he gets moved to a different team, the new guy has no idea. That can be a ticking legal time-bomb.

                J This user is from outside of this forum
                J This user is from outside of this forum
                [email protected]
                wrote last edited by
                #86

                Again, if you know going in that is an absolute requirement, processes can be put in place to ensure things like that doesn't happen. (at least not as often) vs what you're thinking of trying to do it after the game is already shipped.

                1 Reply Last reply
                8
                • kemsat@lemmy.worldK [email protected]

                  If it means developers won’t make “live-service”/trash games anymore, we should hasten the SKG movement.

                  S This user is from outside of this forum
                  S This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote last edited by
                  #87

                  They still will, this will just limit their ability to force you to move to the next one once the servers shut down.

                  G 1 Reply Last reply
                  14
                  • sirico@feddit.ukS [email protected]

                    That's easy have some self control and only buy games that respect you

                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                    [email protected]
                    wrote last edited by
                    #88

                    True. That doesn't mean we shouldn't attack predatory behavior when we see it. If they want to sell me something, I need to own it, and that means I get to use it after they've stopped supporting it.

                    mimicjar@lemmy.worldM 1 Reply Last reply
                    18
                    • kemsat@lemmy.worldK [email protected]

                      If it means developers won’t make “live-service”/trash games anymore, we should hasten the SKG movement.

                      R This user is from outside of this forum
                      R This user is from outside of this forum
                      [email protected]
                      wrote last edited by
                      #89

                      FPS games with community servers coming back is my dream

                      S 1 Reply Last reply
                      28
                      • S [email protected]

                        Let's be real, open sourcing it isn't "hardly any work". All the code has to be reviewed to make sure they can legally release it, no third-party proprietary stuff.

                        pupbiru@aussie.zoneP This user is from outside of this forum
                        pupbiru@aussie.zoneP This user is from outside of this forum
                        [email protected]
                        wrote last edited by
                        #90

                        honestly with online only games i’d be “okay” (not that it’d be great but okay) with them just releasing a bunch of internal docs around the spec. you’re right that open sourcing commercial code is actually non-trivial (though perhaps if they went in knowing this would have to be the outcome then maybe they’d plan better for it), but giving the community the resources to recreate the experience i think is a valid direction

                        S 1 Reply Last reply
                        2
                        • S [email protected]

                          The original article completely misrepresents the initiative:

                          We appreciate the passion of our community; however, the decision to discontinue online services is multi-faceted, never taken lightly and must be an option for companies when an online experience is no longer commercially viable. We understand that it can be disappointing for players but, when it does happen, the industry ensures that players are given fair notice of the prospective changes in compliance with local consumer protection laws.

                          Private servers are not always a viable alternative option for players as the protections we put in place to secure players’ data, remove illegal content, and combat unsafe community content would not exist and would leave rights holders liable. In addition, many titles are designed from the ground-up to be online-only; in effect, these proposals would curtail developer choice by making these video games prohibitively expensive to create.

                          ...

                          Stop Killing Games is not trying to force companies to provide private servers or anything like that, but leave the game in a playable state after shutting off servers. This can mean:

                          • provide alternatives to any online-only content
                          • make the game P2P if it requires multiplayer (no server needed, each client is a server)
                          • gracefully degrading the client experience when there's no server

                          Of course, releasing server code is an option.

                          The expectation is:

                          • if it's a subscription game, I get access for whatever period I pay for
                          • if it's F2P, go nuts and break it whenever you want; there is the issue of I shame purchases, so that depends on how it's advertised
                          • if it's a purchased game, it should still work after support ends

                          That didn't restrict design decisions, it just places a requirement when the game is discontinued. If companies know this going in, they can plan ahead for their exit, just like we expect for mining companies (they're expected to fill in holes and make it look nice once they're done).

                          I argue Stop Killing Games doesn't go far enough, and if it's pissing off the games industry as well, then that means it strikes a good balance.

                          B This user is from outside of this forum
                          B This user is from outside of this forum
                          [email protected]
                          wrote last edited by
                          #91

                          Another part of it is that if they discontinue support, they can’t stop the community from creating their own server software.

                          There are so many ways to approach this. The point is ensuring consumers retain the right to keep using what they purchased, even if they have to support it themselves.

                          S 1 Reply Last reply
                          9
                          • M [email protected]

                            Can the EvE online method be applied to dissimilar games like e.g. fps games?

                            A This user is from outside of this forum
                            A This user is from outside of this forum
                            [email protected]
                            wrote last edited by
                            #92

                            No clue, I just know that it exists and seems to work with the scammiest scammers that ever scammed

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            4
                            • B [email protected]

                              Another part of it is that if they discontinue support, they can’t stop the community from creating their own server software.

                              There are so many ways to approach this. The point is ensuring consumers retain the right to keep using what they purchased, even if they have to support it themselves.

                              S This user is from outside of this forum
                              S This user is from outside of this forum
                              [email protected]
                              wrote last edited by
                              #93

                              Sort of. They need to have the tools as well. So I suppose they could release the APIs for their servers before shutting down their servers so community servers can be created, that would probably be sufficient. But they need to do something beyond just saying, "we won't sue you if you reverse engineer it."

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              10
                              • pupbiru@aussie.zoneP [email protected]

                                honestly with online only games i’d be “okay” (not that it’d be great but okay) with them just releasing a bunch of internal docs around the spec. you’re right that open sourcing commercial code is actually non-trivial (though perhaps if they went in knowing this would have to be the outcome then maybe they’d plan better for it), but giving the community the resources to recreate the experience i think is a valid direction

                                S This user is from outside of this forum
                                S This user is from outside of this forum
                                [email protected]
                                wrote last edited by
                                #94

                                Bold of you to assume such spec or docs exist. Usually it's all cowboyed and tightly coupled, with no planning for reuse.

                                spankmonkey@lemmy.worldS 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • M [email protected]

                                  They did not, they said you can be successful without corpo overhead and bullshittery.

                                  R This user is from outside of this forum
                                  R This user is from outside of this forum
                                  [email protected]
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #95

                                  Not to mention that studios like Larian have proven that it's entirely possible to make a blockbuster game without teams of 400 heads, changing direction and leadership every few years and laying off the people who made the product in the first place. They really seethed at that one, so many salty comments lol.

                                  E 1 Reply Last reply
                                  3
                                  • spankmonkey@lemmy.worldS [email protected]

                                    When the law passes, the owners of proprietary functionality will adapt their licensing to meet the requirrments or go out of business when everyone stops using them.

                                    T This user is from outside of this forum
                                    T This user is from outside of this forum
                                    [email protected]
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #96

                                    Look I get it. The planet is dying, income inequality, it seems everything is unfair and going to shit. People yearn at an opportunity to help make things better. But yelling for simple solutions is the opposite of helpful. Because there are no simple solutions.

                                    Saying to "just open source it" does not make sense.

                                    What do you do about:

                                    • proprietary codecs
                                    • proprietary software that just does not exist as open source
                                    • the fact you need a copy of the game engine to actually build the game from sources
                                    • assets that have been bought on asset stores. Do the people who make those for a living not have a right to continue to make a living?

                                    Making single player games without always online DRM: yes totally doable

                                    Running game servers of online games forever: not really doable, as soon as all the libraries etc. they depend on are unsupported they will shut down one way or another. You need staff basically forever. Not even mentioning the maintenance headache that every legacy system always turns into.

                                    Letting people run their own dedicated servers: sometimes doable, depends on the game though. Some games do not have "a server" but a whole infrastructure of stuff, look at foxhole. Some "servers" are a house of cards barely held together by duct tape.

                                    This initiative all comes down to the definition of "reasonable". What is reasonable, actually? Running an infrastructure at a loss until bankruptcy? Or just keeping it online until it starts making a loss.

                                    spankmonkey@lemmy.worldS 1 Reply Last reply
                                    2
                                    • K [email protected]
                                      This post did not contain any content.
                                      Q This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Q This user is from outside of this forum
                                      [email protected]
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #97

                                      Why are publishers speaking for devs about how much choice devs would have? Why not get devs to speak?

                                      psaldorn@lemmy.worldP M 2 Replies Last reply
                                      87
                                      • K [email protected]
                                        This post did not contain any content.
                                        noxypaws@pawb.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                                        noxypaws@pawb.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                                        [email protected]
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #98

                                        Curtailing developer choice is rather the point, no?

                                        L 1 Reply Last reply
                                        53
                                        • M [email protected]

                                          Anti-cheat is a necessary evil for competitive online games. No one wants to play a game against cheaters since they typically have an unfair advantage. If you can't combat cheating then you might as well not make the game since no one will want to play it. Fine by me since I don't care for such games but I could imagine people who like playing them might prefer to play against as few cheaters as possible. What are the alternatives?

                                          C This user is from outside of this forum
                                          C This user is from outside of this forum
                                          [email protected]
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #99

                                          Anti-cheat is a necessary evil for competitive online games

                                          Client-side anti-cheat is useless. It's not a necessary evil, it's just evil. The minute the cheater/hacker has direct access to the system, you've already lost.

                                          M 1 Reply Last reply
                                          5
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          Powered by NodeBB Contributors
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Tags
                                          • Popular
                                          • World
                                          • Users
                                          • Groups