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  3. Secure use of remote control ?

Secure use of remote control ?

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  • rick_c137@programming.devR [email protected]

    Hi Raspberry Pi Community,

    I would like to use radio remote's control to trigger an events on my Raspberry pi.

    I guess I'll go with 433Mhz as I believe they are the most common available ?

    So I will need a 433Mhz RX/TX Module to connect on the GPIO, so far I get it...

    But how properly secure the communication between those remotes and the RPI to avoid any anyone to sniff the transmitting and replay it. In other words spoof it.

    Wubba Lubba dub-dub...

    H This user is from outside of this forum
    H This user is from outside of this forum
    [email protected]
    wrote last edited by [email protected]
    #5

    You'd use one of the rolling code mechanisms like in a keyless entry system, garage door opener or a car key fob. Maybe symmetric or asymmetric cryptography instead or on top. Depends on the exact use-case. But you'd have to build the remote yourself, I don't think that's in the readily available consumer products.

    If you want it less complicated, have a look at Bluetooth or ESP-NOW. Wifi and Bluetooth and other protocols have encryption handled for you.

    rick_c137@programming.devR 1 Reply Last reply
    3
    • zachariah@lemmy.worldZ [email protected]

      Might be a good use for PGP. The signal can be snooped and spoofed, but the messages should be end-to-end encrypted.

      E This user is from outside of this forum
      E This user is from outside of this forum
      [email protected]
      wrote last edited by
      #6

      Only problem with just using just pgp is that the signal would be vulnerable to a replay attack. I feel like a rolling code that's encrypted using PGP might be the way so that the replay attack part is gotten rid of.

      All that's to say, there's probably some technical paper that details the best way to set up a system like this.

      zachariah@lemmy.worldZ 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • E [email protected]

        Only problem with just using just pgp is that the signal would be vulnerable to a replay attack. I feel like a rolling code that's encrypted using PGP might be the way so that the replay attack part is gotten rid of.

        All that's to say, there's probably some technical paper that details the best way to set up a system like this.

        zachariah@lemmy.worldZ This user is from outside of this forum
        zachariah@lemmy.worldZ This user is from outside of this forum
        [email protected]
        wrote last edited by
        #7

        Could it only accept serialized messages? Once it’s received a message, never accept the same exact message again.

        T 1 Reply Last reply
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        • zachariah@lemmy.worldZ [email protected]

          Could it only accept serialized messages? Once it’s received a message, never accept the same exact message again.

          T This user is from outside of this forum
          T This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote last edited by
          #8

          Well then you'd have to keep track of all messages recieved. An easier option might just be to sign the current system time, make sure the clocks are synchronized, and accept a +/- 1 second wiggle

          zachariah@lemmy.worldZ 1 Reply Last reply
          1
          • T [email protected]

            Well then you'd have to keep track of all messages recieved. An easier option might just be to sign the current system time, make sure the clocks are synchronized, and accept a +/- 1 second wiggle

            zachariah@lemmy.worldZ This user is from outside of this forum
            zachariah@lemmy.worldZ This user is from outside of this forum
            [email protected]
            wrote last edited by
            #9

            Wouldn’t it just need to know which is the highest message number it has seen? And then don’t accept that one or any lower ever again?

            If the count is within the encrypted message, no one can spoof anything higher.

            T rick_c137@programming.devR 2 Replies Last reply
            1
            • zachariah@lemmy.worldZ [email protected]

              Wouldn’t it just need to know which is the highest message number it has seen? And then don’t accept that one or any lower ever again?

              If the count is within the encrypted message, no one can spoof anything higher.

              T This user is from outside of this forum
              T This user is from outside of this forum
              [email protected]
              wrote last edited by
              #10

              Oh fair good point

              1 Reply Last reply
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              • R [email protected]

                Rolling codes may protect you from a replay attack, but if the attacker is more sophisticated and has worked out the algorithm, then they can send the commands and effectively lock you out.

                Is Bluetooth no good? Lots of protection baked in already.

                U This user is from outside of this forum
                U This user is from outside of this forum
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                wrote last edited by
                #11

                Is Bluetooth no good? Lots of protection baked in already.

                Well, if you have a 2 way communication capability anyway, it's not particularly difficult to implement a key exchange, followed by data transmission using a temporary key, similar to HTTPS

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • R [email protected]

                  Rolling codes may protect you from a replay attack, but if the attacker is more sophisticated and has worked out the algorithm, then they can send the commands and effectively lock you out.

                  Is Bluetooth no good? Lots of protection baked in already.

                  rick_c137@programming.devR This user is from outside of this forum
                  rick_c137@programming.devR This user is from outside of this forum
                  [email protected]
                  wrote last edited by
                  #12

                  I'm open to all solutions 🙂
                  But it there some ready Bluetooth remote pilot existing ?

                  R 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • zachariah@lemmy.worldZ [email protected]

                    Wouldn’t it just need to know which is the highest message number it has seen? And then don’t accept that one or any lower ever again?

                    If the count is within the encrypted message, no one can spoof anything higher.

                    rick_c137@programming.devR This user is from outside of this forum
                    rick_c137@programming.devR This user is from outside of this forum
                    [email protected]
                    wrote last edited by
                    #13

                    I don't think this work's if you have multiple remote pilot tough...

                    zachariah@lemmy.worldZ 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • H [email protected]

                      You'd use one of the rolling code mechanisms like in a keyless entry system, garage door opener or a car key fob. Maybe symmetric or asymmetric cryptography instead or on top. Depends on the exact use-case. But you'd have to build the remote yourself, I don't think that's in the readily available consumer products.

                      If you want it less complicated, have a look at Bluetooth or ESP-NOW. Wifi and Bluetooth and other protocols have encryption handled for you.

                      rick_c137@programming.devR This user is from outside of this forum
                      rick_c137@programming.devR This user is from outside of this forum
                      [email protected]
                      wrote last edited by
                      #14

                      Thanks hendrik

                      But you’d have to build the remote yourself

                      maybe in the future, but I don't have the time for it now...


                      \

                      have a look at Bluetooth or ESP-NOW. Wifi and Bluetooth and other protocols have encryption handled for you.

                      So it their Bluetooth or WiFi remote pilot existing for that ?

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • rick_c137@programming.devR [email protected]

                        I'm open to all solutions 🙂
                        But it there some ready Bluetooth remote pilot existing ?

                        R This user is from outside of this forum
                        R This user is from outside of this forum
                        [email protected]
                        wrote last edited by
                        #15

                        Not really read up on it yet, but can you do serial over Bluetooth? Quick Google gave me this: https://raspberry-projects.com/pi/pi-operating-systems/raspbian/bluetooth/serial-over-bluetooth

                        There may even be an android app that could help.
                        Suppose it depends on the scope of your project.

                        Funnily enough I may have to do something with this tech myself later in the year.

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • rick_c137@programming.devR [email protected]

                          I don't think this work's if you have multiple remote pilot tough...

                          zachariah@lemmy.worldZ This user is from outside of this forum
                          zachariah@lemmy.worldZ This user is from outside of this forum
                          [email protected]
                          wrote last edited by
                          #16

                          Each remote could have an ID number it sends.

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