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  3. It's astonishing to me how even right here on Lemmy so many people still misunderstand what this is about with comments saying that piracy fixes it or that downloading the game installer solves the issue.

It's astonishing to me how even right here on Lemmy so many people still misunderstand what this is about with comments saying that piracy fixes it or that downloading the game installer solves the issue.

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  • K This user is from outside of this forum
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    ksin@lemmy.world
    wrote on 23 May 2025, 10:11 last edited by
    #1

    It's astonishing to me how even right here on Lemmy so many people still misunderstand what this is about with comments saying that piracy fixes it or that downloading the game installer solves the issue. The games where those things are options aren't what this effort is about, this is about games like Darkspore, Defiance, Tabula Rasa, and our prototypical example The Crew, where there is no one who can play them no matter where, how, or when, they acquired the game, it is impossible to play for anyone, the whole piece of art has been destroyed.

    Honestly if we can't even communicate what the movement is about to those who aught to be our base it really does not bode well for gaining any kind of wider traction.

    P R I 3 Replies Last reply 23 May 2025, 11:29
    49
    • K ksin@lemmy.world
      23 May 2025, 10:11

      It's astonishing to me how even right here on Lemmy so many people still misunderstand what this is about with comments saying that piracy fixes it or that downloading the game installer solves the issue. The games where those things are options aren't what this effort is about, this is about games like Darkspore, Defiance, Tabula Rasa, and our prototypical example The Crew, where there is no one who can play them no matter where, how, or when, they acquired the game, it is impossible to play for anyone, the whole piece of art has been destroyed.

      Honestly if we can't even communicate what the movement is about to those who aught to be our base it really does not bode well for gaining any kind of wider traction.

      P This user is from outside of this forum
      P This user is from outside of this forum
      prodigalfrog@slrpnk.net
      wrote on 23 May 2025, 11:29 last edited by
      #2

      I think the issue is that, as with reddit, a lot of people are only reading the headline and commenting.

      A S 2 Replies Last reply 23 May 2025, 13:17
      15
      • K ksin@lemmy.world
        23 May 2025, 10:11

        It's astonishing to me how even right here on Lemmy so many people still misunderstand what this is about with comments saying that piracy fixes it or that downloading the game installer solves the issue. The games where those things are options aren't what this effort is about, this is about games like Darkspore, Defiance, Tabula Rasa, and our prototypical example The Crew, where there is no one who can play them no matter where, how, or when, they acquired the game, it is impossible to play for anyone, the whole piece of art has been destroyed.

        Honestly if we can't even communicate what the movement is about to those who aught to be our base it really does not bode well for gaining any kind of wider traction.

        R This user is from outside of this forum
        R This user is from outside of this forum
        rowrowrowyourbot@sh.itjust.works
        wrote on 23 May 2025, 12:23 last edited by
        #3

        The thing is when you created your account you agreed to the fact that it isn't your game. What you agreed to was a game that they own and control and you can participate in. You might not like the results when they close the game but you chose to start playing that game to begin with.

        S K A 3 Replies Last reply 23 May 2025, 12:47
        2
        • R rowrowrowyourbot@sh.itjust.works
          23 May 2025, 12:23

          The thing is when you created your account you agreed to the fact that it isn't your game. What you agreed to was a game that they own and control and you can participate in. You might not like the results when they close the game but you chose to start playing that game to begin with.

          S This user is from outside of this forum
          S This user is from outside of this forum
          semjaza@lemmynsfw.com
          wrote on 23 May 2025, 12:47 last edited by
          #4

          People aren't used to this as a concept, especially when there are so many terms and conditions screens (that have been shown in multiple jurisdictions courts to not be legally binding) they click through on a daily basis as well as many other "as a service" models that are reliable enough that people don't realise what the pitfalls are (people playing for Netflix are fairly certain it won't close next week, for instance), even the more technically minded expect sunset clauses - which would be a pretty good legal baseline to improve the situation.

          B 1 Reply Last reply 23 May 2025, 17:09
          0
          • R rowrowrowyourbot@sh.itjust.works
            23 May 2025, 12:23

            The thing is when you created your account you agreed to the fact that it isn't your game. What you agreed to was a game that they own and control and you can participate in. You might not like the results when they close the game but you chose to start playing that game to begin with.

            K This user is from outside of this forum
            K This user is from outside of this forum
            ksin@lemmy.world
            wrote on 23 May 2025, 12:54 last edited by
            #5

            You're damn right I don't like it, I especially don't like how it destroys art history, which is why I'm part of this campaign to make that practice illegal.

            R 1 Reply Last reply 24 May 2025, 21:04
            12
            • P prodigalfrog@slrpnk.net
              23 May 2025, 11:29

              I think the issue is that, as with reddit, a lot of people are only reading the headline and commenting.

              A This user is from outside of this forum
              A This user is from outside of this forum
              agentrocket@feddit.org
              wrote on 23 May 2025, 13:17 last edited by
              #6

              Also many young people are so used to games requiring online connection and being shut down, that they can't imagine a better way.

              P 1 Reply Last reply 23 May 2025, 13:20
              12
              • A agentrocket@feddit.org
                23 May 2025, 13:17

                Also many young people are so used to games requiring online connection and being shut down, that they can't imagine a better way.

                P This user is from outside of this forum
                P This user is from outside of this forum
                prodigalfrog@slrpnk.net
                wrote on 23 May 2025, 13:20 last edited by prodigalfrog@slrpnk.net
                #7

                That does seem to be an influence, though oddly there are some modern wildly popular games, Minecraft being a prime example, that still allow you to self host your own server, so it shouldn't really be as foreign of a concept as it appears to be to some younger folk.

                R 1 Reply Last reply 24 May 2025, 20:56
                11
                • K ksin@lemmy.world
                  23 May 2025, 10:11

                  It's astonishing to me how even right here on Lemmy so many people still misunderstand what this is about with comments saying that piracy fixes it or that downloading the game installer solves the issue. The games where those things are options aren't what this effort is about, this is about games like Darkspore, Defiance, Tabula Rasa, and our prototypical example The Crew, where there is no one who can play them no matter where, how, or when, they acquired the game, it is impossible to play for anyone, the whole piece of art has been destroyed.

                  Honestly if we can't even communicate what the movement is about to those who aught to be our base it really does not bode well for gaining any kind of wider traction.

                  I This user is from outside of this forum
                  I This user is from outside of this forum
                  icastfist@programming.dev
                  wrote on 23 May 2025, 14:13 last edited by
                  #8

                  In a way, piracy can fix that problem too, since pirate servers existing for ongoing games means they'll never actually die, unless the server source code gets taken down and nobody archives a copy. I mean, WoW Classic only happened because a private server running vanilla got too big, despite Blizzard bullshit of "You think you want it, but you don't" and "We don't have the code to roll back".

                  Star Wars Galaxies, Phantasy Star Online, City of Heroes, Warhammer Age of Reckoning all still exist and can be played, despite being "dead", thanks to private/pirate servers.

                  S S K 3 Replies Last reply 23 May 2025, 16:39
                  11
                  • R rowrowrowyourbot@sh.itjust.works
                    23 May 2025, 12:23

                    The thing is when you created your account you agreed to the fact that it isn't your game. What you agreed to was a game that they own and control and you can participate in. You might not like the results when they close the game but you chose to start playing that game to begin with.

                    A This user is from outside of this forum
                    A This user is from outside of this forum
                    adalast@lemmy.world
                    wrote on 23 May 2025, 14:58 last edited by
                    #9

                    Yeah, but a contract that you cannot negotiate before signing isn't really a contract is it? It is a gate keeper. A gun to the head. An "agree to this or else". In the modern world, one can do essentially nothing without signing a EULA. Want to get a job without signing one? Good luck. Want to play a game? Not many of them. Want to shop online, look at art, communicate with friends and family. Many of the most integral parts of maintaining our mental health are being put behind abusive "contracts" that strip us of any rights we think we have. Community, leisure, socialization, entertainment, all of the primary avenues in the modern world have predominantly become privatized and every one of those comes at a pretty steep nonmonetary cost.

                    R R 2 Replies Last reply 23 May 2025, 16:00
                    11
                    • A adalast@lemmy.world
                      23 May 2025, 14:58

                      Yeah, but a contract that you cannot negotiate before signing isn't really a contract is it? It is a gate keeper. A gun to the head. An "agree to this or else". In the modern world, one can do essentially nothing without signing a EULA. Want to get a job without signing one? Good luck. Want to play a game? Not many of them. Want to shop online, look at art, communicate with friends and family. Many of the most integral parts of maintaining our mental health are being put behind abusive "contracts" that strip us of any rights we think we have. Community, leisure, socialization, entertainment, all of the primary avenues in the modern world have predominantly become privatized and every one of those comes at a pretty steep nonmonetary cost.

                      R This user is from outside of this forum
                      R This user is from outside of this forum
                      rowrowrowyourbot@sh.itjust.works
                      wrote on 23 May 2025, 16:00 last edited by
                      #10

                      You can choose to accept their terms or not play the game.

                      You are not entitled to have everything on your terms.

                      S A 2 Replies Last reply 23 May 2025, 16:44
                      3
                      • I icastfist@programming.dev
                        23 May 2025, 14:13

                        In a way, piracy can fix that problem too, since pirate servers existing for ongoing games means they'll never actually die, unless the server source code gets taken down and nobody archives a copy. I mean, WoW Classic only happened because a private server running vanilla got too big, despite Blizzard bullshit of "You think you want it, but you don't" and "We don't have the code to roll back".

                        Star Wars Galaxies, Phantasy Star Online, City of Heroes, Warhammer Age of Reckoning all still exist and can be played, despite being "dead", thanks to private/pirate servers.

                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                        S This user is from outside of this forum
                        samus12345@lemm.ee
                        wrote on 23 May 2025, 16:39 last edited by
                        #11

                        Marvel Heroes Omega is one I recently discovered has private servers now. I really miss that one. The whole campaign is playable, but the server will be wiped once 1.0 of the emu comes out, possibly early next year.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        4
                        • R rowrowrowyourbot@sh.itjust.works
                          23 May 2025, 16:00

                          You can choose to accept their terms or not play the game.

                          You are not entitled to have everything on your terms.

                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                          S This user is from outside of this forum
                          samus12345@lemm.ee
                          wrote on 23 May 2025, 16:44 last edited by
                          #12

                          You can also choose to call them out on having anti-consumer practices. You are entitled to criticize shitty business practices.

                          R 1 Reply Last reply 23 May 2025, 17:18
                          6
                          • S semjaza@lemmynsfw.com
                            23 May 2025, 12:47

                            People aren't used to this as a concept, especially when there are so many terms and conditions screens (that have been shown in multiple jurisdictions courts to not be legally binding) they click through on a daily basis as well as many other "as a service" models that are reliable enough that people don't realise what the pitfalls are (people playing for Netflix are fairly certain it won't close next week, for instance), even the more technically minded expect sunset clauses - which would be a pretty good legal baseline to improve the situation.

                            B This user is from outside of this forum
                            B This user is from outside of this forum
                            blueberrydreamer@lemmynsfw.com
                            wrote on 23 May 2025, 17:09 last edited by
                            #13

                            Or people are used to this concept and accept it as normal instead of unethical behavior that should be illegal.

                            Z 1 Reply Last reply 24 May 2025, 16:43
                            2
                            • S samus12345@lemm.ee
                              23 May 2025, 16:44

                              You can also choose to call them out on having anti-consumer practices. You are entitled to criticize shitty business practices.

                              R This user is from outside of this forum
                              R This user is from outside of this forum
                              rowrowrowyourbot@sh.itjust.works
                              wrote on 23 May 2025, 17:18 last edited by
                              #14

                              I wouldn’t call this a shitty business practice. You agreed to a game they own and control. You went into the game knowing this. If they are losing money on the game why should they lose more just to “preserve” the game after shutting down?

                              S 1 Reply Last reply 23 May 2025, 17:24
                              2
                              • R rowrowrowyourbot@sh.itjust.works
                                23 May 2025, 17:18

                                I wouldn’t call this a shitty business practice. You agreed to a game they own and control. You went into the game knowing this. If they are losing money on the game why should they lose more just to “preserve” the game after shutting down?

                                S This user is from outside of this forum
                                S This user is from outside of this forum
                                samus12345@lemm.ee
                                wrote on 23 May 2025, 17:24 last edited by
                                #15

                                They don't have to. They can release the code and let people run their own servers once they're no longer interested in doing so. This costs them nothing.

                                R 1 Reply Last reply 24 May 2025, 21:00
                                7
                                • I icastfist@programming.dev
                                  23 May 2025, 14:13

                                  In a way, piracy can fix that problem too, since pirate servers existing for ongoing games means they'll never actually die, unless the server source code gets taken down and nobody archives a copy. I mean, WoW Classic only happened because a private server running vanilla got too big, despite Blizzard bullshit of "You think you want it, but you don't" and "We don't have the code to roll back".

                                  Star Wars Galaxies, Phantasy Star Online, City of Heroes, Warhammer Age of Reckoning all still exist and can be played, despite being "dead", thanks to private/pirate servers.

                                  S This user is from outside of this forum
                                  S This user is from outside of this forum
                                  sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
                                  wrote on 24 May 2025, 16:33 last edited by
                                  #16

                                  That only works if the server code gets leaked or someone reverse engineers it. Both of those options shouldn't be relied on, especially for more complex or less popular games.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  4
                                  • prodigalfrog@slrpnk.netP prodigalfrog@slrpnk.net
                                    23 May 2025, 11:29

                                    I think the issue is that, as with reddit, a lot of people are only reading the headline and commenting.

                                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                                    S This user is from outside of this forum
                                    sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
                                    wrote on 24 May 2025, 16:34 last edited by sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
                                    #17

                                    Sure, but when the link is to a video, I don't blame them.

                                    prodigalfrog@slrpnk.netP 1 Reply Last reply 24 May 2025, 17:41
                                    0
                                    • B blueberrydreamer@lemmynsfw.com
                                      23 May 2025, 17:09

                                      Or people are used to this concept and accept it as normal instead of unethical behavior that should be illegal.

                                      Z This user is from outside of this forum
                                      Z This user is from outside of this forum
                                      zexks@lemmy.world
                                      wrote on 24 May 2025, 16:43 last edited by
                                      #18

                                      That's basically like saying g all mmo's should illegal. Or that it is illegal to go out of business and close up shop without giving away all your code.

                                      B 1 Reply Last reply 24 May 2025, 18:13
                                      0
                                      • S sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
                                        24 May 2025, 16:34

                                        Sure, but when the link is to a video, I don't blame them.

                                        prodigalfrog@slrpnk.netP This user is from outside of this forum
                                        prodigalfrog@slrpnk.netP This user is from outside of this forum
                                        prodigalfrog@slrpnk.net
                                        wrote on 24 May 2025, 17:41 last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Here's a link to the Stop Killing Games campaign, of which the video is about.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        2
                                        • Z zexks@lemmy.world
                                          24 May 2025, 16:43

                                          That's basically like saying g all mmo's should illegal. Or that it is illegal to go out of business and close up shop without giving away all your code.

                                          B This user is from outside of this forum
                                          B This user is from outside of this forum
                                          blueberrydreamer@lemmynsfw.com
                                          wrote on 24 May 2025, 18:13 last edited by
                                          #20

                                          That's pretty much exactly what I'm saying. If you offer software that requires outside servers to run, you should be legally obligated to release the code used to run the servers if you discontinue supporting that software. That doesn't make mmo's any different, just a minor change to how they handle end of life.

                                          R 1 Reply Last reply 24 May 2025, 21:09
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